Lady Yeung (Yellow-Robed Maiden): could the HSDS heroes have prevailed without her?

[Ken Cheng]

Twice towards the end of HSDS, the mysterious Lady Yeung (Yellow-Robed Maiden) appeared suddenly and unexpectedly to help the heroes put a quick and convenient end to two crises: Chan Yau Leung's plot to usurp the Beggar's Union using a fake Union Chief Shih For Lung and Chow Chi Yerk's attempt to murder Tse Tsun at Shaolin. Her intervention expeditiously thwarted the villains' plans.

That said, could the heroes have prevailed without her? If Lady Yeung hadn't appeared on either of those occasions, how would the heroes have resolved those problems? Could they have?

[Dugu Qiubai]

Zhang Wuji would have killed a lot of beggars and Zhang Wuji would just have to man up and kill Zhou Zhirou.

[Trien Chieu]

Zhang Wuji would have killed a lot of beggars and Zhang Wuji would just have to man up and kill Zhou Zhirou.

Zhao Min had done a lot more worse things than Zhou Zhirou ever did in her life. If ZWJ is not a hypocrite then he should kill her first.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Difficult to say, for ZWJ's personality would hamper his actions.

Would he really kill dozens of innocent beggars whose only crime was being fooled?
Could he kill a woman he has such affection for even to avenge his Foster Father?

ZWJ's lack of a spine really makes me doubt he would settle either incident with bloodshed.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Zhao Min had done a lot more worse things than Zhou Zhirou ever did in her life. If ZWJ is not a hypocrite then he should kill her first.

And what unforgivable crimes did ZM commit? Was it being born a Mongolian. Trying to be a patriot. Or falling in love. Which one of these actions deserved her paying with her life?

[wkeej]

OT: Briefly, one turn "good" to "bad" (ZZR) and one from "bad" to "good" (ZM).

[Dugu Qiubai]

He loves Xie Fun too much and now he loves Zhou Zhirou.

[Trien Chieu]

And what unforgivable crimes did ZM commit? Was it being born a Mongolian. Trying to be a patriot. Or falling in love. Which one of these actions deserved her paying with her life?

Crippled one of ZWJ martial uncle, kidnapped countless wulin leaders and indirectly causing the death of MJ. Don't tell me she has nothing to do with it. ZZR should have killed her for revenge. I wonder why the people of wulin didn't go after her. I hope they will go after her after the end of HSDS. ZWJ is powerful but he can't be with her 24/7. Regarding XX, he killed countless innocent people as well. At the end of HSDS, the loved ones of his victims should kill him for revenge.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Crippled one of ZWJ martial uncle, kidnapped countless wulin leaders and indirectly causing the death of MJ. Don't tell me she has nothing to do with it. ZZR should have killed her for revenge. I wonder why the people of wulin didn't go after her. I hope they will go after her after the end of HSDS. ZWJ is powerful but he can't be with her 24/7. Regarding XX, he killed countless innocent people as well. At the end of HSDS, the loved ones of his victims should kill him for revenge.

There is no evidence to prove that ZM ordered the attack on Yin Liting, so blaming her would be unfair. Given the fact that she kidnapped instead of killed the wulin leaders this would strongly suggest she did not.

She had her enemies at her mercy but stayed her hand, showing that she still had a measure of humanity. All she had to do was give the order, not to provide them with water and none of them would have survived. It was far more mercy than the 5 schools showed the Ming Cult when they had the upper hand.

We have discussed MJ's death in detail before and I think we can safely conclude that although ZM had to take some responsibility the bulk of the blame lay with MJ herself.

With the revolution against the Mongols starting, I seriously doubt anyone had the time to pursue ZM.

Redemption was an important part of HSDS. If the focus was revenge then ZWJ should have massacred the 5 schools for killing his parents.

[Dugu Qiubai]

Then the story would've been much more exciting with an non pussy Zhang Wuji mastering powerful arts wandering Jianghu slaughter whole sects staining them with blood.

[Nan Ling]

I always did wonder who was responsible for the 2nd uncle and the 6th uncle getting cripple?

To answer the original question on this post, I think yellow robe maiden is needed to help the heroes. I think she is very skilled and smart. I don't think ZWJ would kill ZZR.

[Ken Cheng]

I always did wonder who was responsible for the 2nd uncle and the 6th uncle getting cripple?

The Western Shaolin mercenaries under the employ of the Yuan Dynasty.

[ToastedRossi]

Without the Yellow Lady, there would have been a serious feud between the Beggar Association and the Ming Cult. And in the second incident, Xie Xun would have died at Zhou Zhiruo's hand and Zhang Wuji would have probably died to the Shaolin elders. In turn, Shaolin would have fallen under Cheng Kun's leadership and Chen Yaoling would have controlled the Beggar Association. No one else could have replaced what the Yellow Lady did because she was working with information that they didn't have access to.

And what unforgivable crimes did ZM commit? Was it being born a Mongolian. Trying to be a patriot. Or falling in love. Which one of these actions deserved her paying with her life?

Zhao Min accepted responsibility for the actions of her subordinates - she was the one giving orders after all. So all told, she's responsible for killing, capturing, wounding, imprisoning, torturing, poisoning, and mutilating numerous prominent martial artists. It's just that Zhang Wuji was a big enough person to forgive her for all of that. Then again he just doesn't have it within him to hurt her.

The Western Shaolin mercenaries under the employ of the Yuan Dynasty.

Technically they were from the school founded by Hougong Toutuo. The idea was to create a feud between Wudang and Shaolin.

[Ian Liew]

Zhao Min accepted responsibility for the actions of her subordinates - she was the one giving orders after all. So all told, she's responsible for killing, capturing, wounding, imprisoning, torturing, poisoning, and mutilating numerous prominent martial artists. It's just that Zhang Wuji was a big enough person to forgive her for all of that. Then again he just doesn't have it within him to hurt her.

I think it also helped that none of the people who she harmed were really dear to him (if anything, he was *supposed* to hate them for causing his parents' deaths). Yin Liting made a full recovery, while Yu Daiyan's injuries were before Zhao Min's time. Kong Sheng would probably be the person he felt most grief for, but even then they were just passing acquaintances. Zhao Min made a point not to harm the Wudang prisoners, and I think that really helped. If she had cut off Song Yuanqiao's finger, or killed Yu Lianzhou, I doubt Wuji would be that forgiving. He might still spare her but would never bring himself to marry her at the end.

[ToastedRossi]

I think it also helped that none of the people who she harmed were really dear to him (if anything, he was *supposed* to hate them for causing his parents' deaths). Yin Liting made a full recovery, while Yu Daiyan's injuries were before Zhao Min's time. Kong Sheng would probably be the person he felt most grief for, but even then they were just passing acquaintances. Zhao Min made a point not to harm the Wudang prisoners, and I think that really helped. If she had cut off Song Yuanqiao's finger, or killed Yu Lianzhou, I doubt Wuji would be that forgiving. He might still spare her but would never bring himself to marry her at the end.

I'm pretty convinced that Zhang Wuji would find some excuse to forgive her anyways. He did that for all the people who forced his parents to commit suicide, and anything else sort of pales in comparison. Heck, Zhang Wuji did that for Zhao Min herself when he was certain that she had murdered Yin Li.

[Ian Liew]

I'm pretty convinced that Zhang Wuji would find some excuse to forgive her anyways. He did that for all the people who forced his parents to commit suicide, and anything else sort of pales in comparison. Heck, Zhang Wuji did that for Zhao Min herself when he was certain that she had murdered Yin Li.

Not to the extent of marrying her and spending the rest of his life with her, though. He'd probably be a celibate Taoist or something.

[wkeej]

Not to the extent of marrying her and spending the rest of his life with her, though. He'd probably be a celibate Taoist or something.

Thanks goodness he did not continue to be Ming leader. Or else there will be no "Ming" dynasty. Looks like we are digressing from topic again.

[Nan Ling]

Thanks goodness he did not continue to be Ming leader. Or else there will be no "Ming" dynasty. Looks like we are digressing from topic again.

If Zwj stayed as ming sect leader instead of yx, do you guys think he will get over thrown as well?
Zhu yuanzhang suppose to be very smart and has very good war strategy I think.

Not to the extent of marrying her and spending the rest of his life with her, though. He'd probably be a celibate Taoist or something.

Agree...... I think he probably would forgive her but not marry her......

[Nan Ling]

Without the Yellow Lady, there would have been a serious feud between the Beggar Association and the Ming Cult. And in the second incident, Xie Xun would have died at Zhou Zhiruo's hand and Zhang Wuji would have probably died to the Shaolin elders. In turn, Shaolin would have fallen under Cheng Kun's leadership and Chen Yaoling would have controlled the Beggar Association. No one else could have replaced what the Yellow Lady did because she was working with information that they didn't have access to.

I think also the yellow robe maiden would seem less bias so people would be more likely to listen to her words.

[ToastedRossi]

Not to the extent of marrying her and spending the rest of his life with her, though. He'd probably be a celibate Taoist or something.

I'm not so sure about that. Zhang Wuji certainly managed to work out a whole bunch of excuses to stick around Zhao Min, and he was on his way to working out a bunch for Zhou Zhiruo by the end of the book as well.

If Zwj stayed as ming sect leader instead of yx, do you guys think he will get over thrown as well?
Zhu yuanzhang suppose to be very smart and has very good war strategy I think.

Absolutely. Jin Yong even mentions in the afterword that even if Zhang Wuji managed to become emperor, he had no qualifications for the post so he would have made a mess of things.

I think also the yellow robe maiden would seem less bias so people would be more likely to listen to her words.

It's less that, and more that she had the Dog-Beating Stick and knowledge that the leader of the Beggar Association was fake. Without physical evidence, it would have been really hard to foil Chen Youliang's plot.