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The Force in STAR WARS and inner power in wuxia.
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Thread: The Force in STAR WARS and inner power in wuxia.

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default The Force in STAR WARS and inner power in wuxia.

    To me, George Lucas likely directly or indirectly drew some inspiration for the Force in his STAR WARS universe from the concept inner power or "neigong" in wuxia. Some of the feats performed by Force-users such as Jedi and Sith in the STAR WARS movies are similar to feats seen performed by wuxia characters.

    Case in point:

    1. Force Push: favored by Jedi, this is similar to wuxia characters using inner power to drive palm techniques such as Hong Lung 18 Palms, though the Jedi tend not to kill with this power the way wuxia warriors often do when they channel their inner power through their palms.

    2. Force Run: similar to lightness skills in wuxia fiction such as the Ling Bor Mei Bo from DGSD.

    3. Jedi Mind Trick: somewhat similar to the "Yee Wan Dai Fat" hypnosis technique from the 9 Yum Jen Ging, right down to being effective only on the weak-minded.

    4. Sith Force Lightning: OK...admittedly, this is one that isn't seen in wuxia. No wuxia character has ever shot LIGHTNING from his/her fingertips.

    5. Levitating Objects: in wuxia, we once saw Kiu Fung pull a broken dagger that was lying at his feet into his hands through a kind of suction force, but that was unique and frankly, not quite how like Jedi and Sith often call their lightsabers and other objects to them across yards and yards, let alone levitate objects as massive as an X-Wing starfighter.

    6: Force Heal: wuxia fans are familiar with the concept of characters using their inner power to heal wounds.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    4. Sith Force Lightning: OK...admittedly, this is one that isn't seen in wuxia. No wuxia character has ever shot LIGHTNING from his/her fingertips.

    Thoughts?
    Maybe not lightning. How's about "Wind and Cloud" power? The three are at least weather related.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    3. Jedi Mind Trick: somewhat similar to the "Yee Wan Dai Fat" hypnosis technique from the 9 Yum Jen Ging, right down to being effective only on the weak-minded.
    I don't recall the 9 Yin thing. But this reminds me of Ding Chunqiu's mind control of MRF and DYQ at chess game. IIRC he could only do it under some special situation, so not as useful as Jedi's.

    4. Sith Force Lightning: OK...admittedly, this is one that isn't seen in wuxia. No wuxia character has ever shot LIGHTNING from his/her fingertips.
    We had a few wuxia characters emit lightning-like power, such as XF infusing it on Dog-Beating Stick, and one of the Du monks transmitting it by paper. Both were done via a physical medium though.

    But, 6MSJ. And LDA in general.

    5. Levitating Objects: in wuxia, we once saw Kiu Fung pull a broken dagger that was lying at his feet into his hands through a kind of suction force, but that was unique and frankly, not quite how like Jedi and Sith often call their lightsabers and other objects to them across yards and yards, let alone levitate objects as massive as an X-Wing starfighter.
    JMZ and DQY could also do this kind of thing (as XF). But yeah, the way Star Wars warrior do it is not physically possible in wuxia.

    Although Star Wars warriors seem to possess more power, it seems less coherent than wuxia. But I'm comparing movies to novels; obviously novels have more details on the exact levels of ppl, specific feats, etc.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Oh, com'on guys, you're better than this. I'm pretty sure Lucas read Jin Yong's work at least once prior to even beginning Episode IV script:

    LOCH - 1959
    ROCH - 1961
    HSDS - 1963

    Episode IV - 1977

    Prequels:

    Anakin = Yang Guo + Yang Kang
    Padme = XLN
    forbidden love not recognized by Jedi society
    obsessed with ppl losing arm
    Anakin technically "died" just like Yang Kang did in Episode III

    Original Trilogy:

    Anakin = Yang Kang
    Luke = Yang Guo
    son redeems father theme
    obsessed with ppl losing arm
    ObiWan = Ouyang Feng, YG s 1st true master but quickly departed from his presence
    Yoda = Hong Qigong, YG s next master after XLN. Yoda even has a walking cane that looks like a beggar staff. In the prequels, he was head of beggar clan, ie. Jedi council. OF n HQ are near equal buddies in abilities, so are Yoda n Obi Wan. HQ n Yoda are both happy-go-lucky characters in this trilogy and in LOCH/ROCH.
    Lucas planned to have 3 trilogies here after filming, with the original part of the middle trilogy. Hmm, why is that? Could it be that the Condor Heroes also came in three trilogies?

    Sequels:

    BB8 = Heavenly sword w half of map (a lot of ppl say BB8 is a girl -- makes sense b/c Heavenly sword is the Yin sword, btw correct me if I'm wrong, been a long time since I watched HSDS)
    R2D2 = Dragon saber w other half of map
    everyone wants map b/c it leads to source of IMMENSE GOD-LIKE power = manual in HSDS, but Luke in SW Ep VII-IX
    Rey = Zhang Wuji (grew up alone stranded w/o even an uncle on Jakku)
    Luke = Zhang Sanfeng (found on top of mountain)
    possible Luke may not be Rey's father, but her godfather, just like ZS in HSDS

    So, of course "The Force" is based on wuxia inner power. But westerners won't accept it, unless it was named after invisible magnetic forces.

    P.S., you'll never hear them talk about Jin Yong. Shakespeares never talked about the prior works from which he drew inspirations that made him famous...

    (Btw, force push, levitation, electric discharge, that sounds a lot like an electromagnet doesn't it? Inner heart from which inner power emanates is also a magnet [ie. heart is center of human magnetic field]:


    )
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-21-16 at 02:00 PM.

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    sorry, i couldn't resist. speculations for Eps VIII-IX, in accordance w HSDS storyline;

    - Luke turns out to be Rey's godfather. He never had a child.
    - We are introduced to a new 'vampiric' character, perhaps feeds on the force energy of other Force users making them weak?
    - Rey reclaims her lost heritage and becomes a powerful mistress leader. Luke never became of king-like stature in the OT, but Rey's highness will put him to shame here a la cult master Zhang Wuji style.
    - BB8 n R2D2 get destroyed to add drama, just like the HS n DS got their blades broken, but they are restored soon after.
    - Lucas conveniently left out Yang Guo's harem of girls in the prequels/OT b/c they weren't central to the story. But having a harem IS central to HSDS. So, Rey might have a harem of lovers in the sequels. Finn is just the start. He might be there just like that little girl little Zhang Wuji saved and returned to her father. Finn might be there just to trick the viewers into thinking Rey will end up with him as a couple. I'd wager by the end of Episode IX, there might be 3-4 guys romantically interested in Rey.
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-21-16 at 02:59 PM.

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    George Lucas was born in 1944. At the time that Jin Yong's CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY was in initial publication in Hong Kong and Taiwan, Lucas would have been in high school.

    Lucas *did* spend some time in Japan during the early 1970s (before he began filming STAR WARS), but he is not known to have traveled to Hong Kong or Taiwan during his youth.

    Lucas grew up in Modesto, California. It is very possible Lucas had some friends of Chinese heritage living in Modesto, but at the time, I don't know if any wuxia stories from Jin Yong or any other writer had made their way to the U.S. Up until the ascension of Bruce Lee in the early 1970s, most Americans had very little exposure to Chinese martial arts and its role in popular culture.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    George Lucas was born in 1944. At the time that Jin Yong's CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY was in initial publication in Hong Kong and Taiwan, Lucas would have been in high school.

    Lucas *did* spend some time in Japan during the early 1970s (before he began filming STAR WARS), but he is not known to have traveled to Hong Kong or Taiwan during his youth.

    Lucas grew up in Modesto, California. It is very possible Lucas had some friends of Chinese heritage living in Modesto, but at the time, I don't know if any wuxia stories from Jin Yong or any other writer had made their way to the U.S. Up until the ascension of Bruce Lee in the early 1970s, most Americans had very little exposure to Chinese martial arts and its role in popular culture.
    No I was referring to the books Jin Yong wrote. There is a 14 year gap between HSDS publication and Episode IV. Plenty could have happened in between, like the (translated) books falling into Lucas's hands. Remember, when ppl want to borrow something, they usually save time and research by borrowing from what's popular in another culture. I'm assuming Condor Heroes already became popular, much like Harry Potter books by the time the third trilogy got published. All Lucas had to do was ask, "hey, what's popular in your culture? and the response would have been Condor Heroes..."

    It's like Harry Potter. The author already made hundreds of millions and the story spread like wildfire before even the first movie got made. Everybody into fiction already knew about HP well in advance of the first movie.

    Remember, nobody ever became billionaires by being original. Bill Gates never wrote a single piece of MSDOS code. He bought it from someone else and licensed it...

    Lastly, Lucas didn't even have to read the whole novels. A short synopsis would have been just fine to inspire him to recreate it in the first Star Wars trilogy... Then, we have the decade+ long years between Episode VI and Episode I where Lucas had plenty of time to reread Condor Heroes in detail...

    Wait just one bit more info, why you think Jin Yong's work was so heavy into secret societies? Maybe he/his family belonged to one in real life, and Lucas in another one as well. It's possible there was a high-level cultural exchange between JY's secret society and Lucas's secret society that facilitated Lucas into understanding JY's work. It's easy to know anything about anything in the world when you've got connections like being a member of some elite circle...

    A bit more, the only reason ppl form secret societies is b/c of money/profits. A member probably saw how popular Jin Yong's work became and thought to profit from it by adapting it for the West. That's probably how Lucas came across Condor Heroes anyways b/c the society he belonged to had agenda to push/adapt Jin Yong's work in whatever form necessary beyond China. Of course the agenda never materialized, but that didn't stop Lucas from creating his own work out of it...

    I mean you look at Napster. A possible scenario: Someone took care to translate Jin Yong's work in English. While that person took a nap, Lucas read the manuscript that person worked on and a light bulb came on inside his head...
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-21-16 at 08:49 PM.

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    Btw, Lucas probably did what Japan had been doing for a long time. "Hey, what's popular in your culture?" "Journey to the West." "Awesome! Here's Dragonball Z, Naruto, Inuyasha, and whatever else."

    Naruto --- he can multiply/clone hundreds of himself just like Money King, he also ain't a human but carries a demon inside.
    Inuyasha --- he wears subjugation necklace around his neck like the Monkey King and the ring on his forehead, plus he ain't human, but a demon. He also trapped/pinned to a tree by a magic arrow for decades like Monkey King trapped under rocks for 500 yrs.

    Lucas pulled a Jin Yong on u guys, and most of u don't recognize it.
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-21-16 at 11:41 PM.

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    Only problem with your theory is that all of those things have been literary archetypes for thousands of years. It's hardly unique to JY.

    Lucas's works have been influenced by eastern ideas like buddhism and likely taoism, but nothing specific to wuxia. Jedi are basically taoist knights with supers powers, which sounds like certain wuxia heroes, but it also sounds like King Arthur's knights that believe in taoism. I really, really doubt he ever even heard of Jin Yong while writing Star Wars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hirobo2 View Post
    A possible scenario: Someone took care to translate Jin Yong's work in English. While that person took a nap, Lucas read the manuscript that person worked on and a light bulb came on inside his head...
    Heh, this is funny especially to forum members from years ago; even in the age of the internet and people worldwide gathered around a forum, it took like a decade for a few chapters to be translated. Yet somehow back in the 70's, someone just randomly translated JY works and left it lying around...

    And Ken, LOCH/ROCH/HSDS/DGSD has been finished for years I believe!

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    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Heh, this is funny especially to forum members from years ago; even in the age of the internet and people worldwide gathered around a forum, it took like a decade for a few chapters to be translated. Yet somehow back in the 70's, someone just randomly translated JY works and left it lying around...

    And Ken, LOCH/ROCH/HSDS/DGSD has been finished for years I believe!
    You obviously don't know how secret societies work. They're only interested in what's popular b/c that's where the money is, that where the big volume sales will be. If back in 1960's, you were a secret society member and you wanted to profit from China's literature, there were only five works worth your time, the Great Four works and Condor Trilogy.

    Same with the West, if you wanted to know what's popular in Western literature today 2016, there's only three worth your time: Shakespeare, JRR Tolkien (Hobbit/LOTR), Harry Potter. Wizard of Oz technically don't count b/c it existed as a screenplay not literature book/novel in the form we know it today.

    Com'on now, within 14 years and you don't think a Western secret society member ever heard of Great Four + Condor Heroes?

    Plus don't forget Japan is big secret society base in Asia, where Lucas had most influence. Stuff travel back and forth between secret societies "faster than internet" back then... j/k

    Now, here's the MOST IMPORTANT part, Art of War by Sun Tzu is REQUIRED READING by all US military personnels. Americans (not the general populace, but the ones in power like military commanders) are far more interested in Chinese literature than you think. You ask the general populace, they probably have not idea what "Art of War" is, but you ask an Illuminati, they could probably quote Jin Yong in Chinese too, j/k.

    And Lucas IS Illuminati. Most Jewish ppl in Hollywood are Illuminati members. George Lucas is Jewish.

    Lastly, an important point. A lot of NEW products on the market today, the Illuminati began their development/market testing 10 years ago. What is mean is the Illuminati always get things first many many years before general populace. This is no different with literature. Jin Yong is known by Western Illuminati before there is even a market for it in the West.
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-22-16 at 02:31 PM.

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    Don't know about all that, but tokusatsu fans have speculated if the android super-villain Hakaida from the 1972 Japanese sci-fi/action series JINZO NINGEN KIKAIDA (e.g. ANDROID KIKAIDA) might have inspired the design for Darth Vader:




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    Shogun armor:





    Vader suit:



    It profts no one to make modifications but to copy designs/story elements EXACTLY...

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    Yang Guo/XLN:



    Anakin/Padme:


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    Heavenly Sword + Dragon Saber:



    Ep VII Heavenly Sword (blue lightsaber):



    Ep VII Dragon Saber (red lightsaber): (You wonder why they add crossguard? b/c DS can't look like HS with color change only. Dragon Saber is a lot wider than Heavenly Sword, hence the crossguard. Also flares coming out of Kylo sword crossguards look like dragon breathing out fire)



    Or, in Droid form (b/c they each carried half of secret map to Luke):



    (Heavenly Droid -- Female)

    (Dragon Droid -- Male)
    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-22-16 at 03:01 PM.

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    Btw, the Chinese have a similar war armor too (helmet of the left figure of 1st image looks remotely like Vader helmet):










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    Kylo Ren = Zhou Zhiruo (not genuine Force powers like Vader/Luke, but a rushed imitation, like Zhou Zhiruo doesn't possess genuine divine skills as Yellow Robed maiden can overcome her in HSDS with the true skills)

    Zhou Zhiruo:




    Kylo Ren:


    Last edited by hirobo2; 01-22-16 at 06:06 PM.

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    Apparently Disney switched the gender of the main HSDS characters.

    Zhang Wuji is now a girl (like Zhou Zhiruo is now a boy) = Rey (Remember Zhang Wuji is the guy who can pick up divine skills w/o a tutor or long training, just like how Rey suddenly mastered the Force in 5 minutes. Wuji even mastered the Great Universe Shift while training alone [no help] trapped inside the secret tunnels/caverns)

    Zhang Wuji:




    Rey Kira:



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    And let's not forget Master Luke Skywalker. He already played as Yang Guo in the Original Trilogy. The story of Yang Guo is done, finished.

    Zhang Sanfeng = Luke (now reprises the role as the Great ZS who lives on top of a mountain, which is Mt Wudang. Remember the flashback Rey had about Luke? Sounds a lot like when Wuji and ZS were together like family members when they were younger doesn't it? Also ZS is the most powerful figure in HSDS, so is Luke in terms of Force abilities)

    Zhang Sanfeng:




    Luke Skywalker:



  20. #20
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    There's no doubt about the influence of historical Asian war armor on Darth Vader's armor design. George Lucas has explicitly said on more than one occasion that samurai armor had a direct and deep influence on the look of Vader's armored suit. Moreover, the basic plot of STAR WARS: A NEW HOPE was lifted largely from the Akira Kurosawa film THE HIDDEN FORTRESS.

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