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Thread: If Heaven Earth Society & Red Flower Society used Hamas method against Qing Dynasty

  1. #21
    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    The Ming had good Emperors, actually, but the key with the Qing was that their three good Emperors ruled for *very* long in total, and so they could establish a good, solid foundation with which to build upon until Qianlong eventually became arrogant in his senility. Even the horrible Wanli's reign of around 40 years could be split into a good first half and a sick second half.

    I'm not saying that the Ming are better than the Qing, they're just a normal dynasty with its fair share of good rulers, despots and wastrels. The Qing just happened to have those three (or at least, two of them, but Yongzheng's period was also critical) last for a really long time. Post-Qianlong I am also very sympathetic to Guangzu and his efforts, but the poor man never really had a chance. That was a man who could have bought more time for the Qing.

  2. #22
    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    And don't forget that there was the confusion about who to rule if the Han Chinese did manage to purge the Manchus. The Han Chinese lacked a capable ruler to unite them all under and there were different groups supporting different leaders.

    And in regards to the Emperors, the Ming dynasty had some capable but violent Emperors, but it also had some incapable Emperors that were luckily paired with efficient ministers who ran the country so the Ming dynasty still held on. The Qing dynasty did have some capable emperors but then the incapable ones were paired with corrupt ministers or selfish regents so it made it look worse. But overall, it is just natural for a dynasty to rise and decline.

    You have to take account that in the eyes of a common peasant that lived through the transition of Ming to Qing, they only can experience the last dwindling years of the Ming dynasty and the peak of the Qing dynasty. SO of course, they thought the Qing dynasty was better.
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace High View Post
    You know, I’m still wondering what rights did the Qing denied the Han but even TC can’t answer that. Even though TC is very sure that the Qing did deprived the Han of their rights. Maybe the rights to be ruled by tyrants and/or incompetent fools?
    Wait a few weeks, then TC will come up with another thread based on a counter-historical premise where he rages against non-Chinese Asians who have the temerity not to conduct their lives as good modern capitalists should. He will proceed to ignore all historical points made to explain how things were back then, with his argument that people should be expected to take advantage of modern amenities to make their 13th century lives more rewarding.

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