In any given era, is the Chief Abbot of Shaolin a Top 20 martial artist in wulin?

[Ken Cheng]

The prestige of the Shaolin Temple in wulin is renowned throughout wuxia fiction. Owing to Shaolin's longevity and its numerous illustrious fighters and excellent techniques, that prestige is generally well-deserved. Nevertheless, rarely in any wuxia story is the Chief Abbot of Shaolin ever depicted as the top martial artist in wulin, or even a consensus top five martial artist.

Would it be fair to say, however, that in almost any given era of wulin in which the Shaolin Temple exists, the Chief Abbot of Shaolin would be a top twenty martial artist at worst? It seems kind of incongruous that a wulin sect with Shaolin's preeminent reputation never or seldom fields a leader whose martial arts qualify for even top twenty consideration.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

While I do not doubt that in any given era Shaolin would have at least one fighter within the top 10, let along top 20, this does not necessarily have to be the Abbott. I've always been under the impression that the position of Abbott was decided by a mixture of enlightenment and seniority, with fighting ability counting for very little if at all.

Even in eras when the Abbott was in the top 20, he might not be the best fighter within Shaolin. An example would be HSDS, although Abbott Kongwen was one of the top fighters, he was clearly inferior to the three Du monks. Even within his own generation Kongwen seemed somewhat lacking when compared to Kongjian.

[tape]

I guess SPW is the only novel where he is a definitive top 5 fighter, but in all other novels they're usually the rank right below Great/protagonist level; the thing that sets them apart is that there's usually a ton of Shaolin monks at that level. In HSDS besides the four Kong reverends, it was mentioned there were actually many more Kong generation monks that had comparable skills -- and this didn't even include the Du Monks and whoever might be the head of the Damo Hall etc. This is the same case in DGSD.

When you add in people like Sweeper that could potentially exist in every era, it makes sense that Shaolin has the reputation they have. They might not field a top 5 fighter, but they're fielding like 40 top 100 fighters at any given time, and then randomly may have a wtf fighter.

[EdenResident]

I think the Shaolin elders would typically prefer to keep the martial art prodigies out of managerial duties so they can fully concentrate on training. This is the case with Kong Jian, who I think had the potential to become Great level if he didn't die.

Also, remember that Shaolin is the de facto Wulin leader so the Elders will select someone with good diplomatic skills. In the end, too much managerial duty and participating Wulin affairs will prevent the Chief Abbot from full time training. Can't really blame them for not being a top fighter then.

[Snafu3721]

When reading this thread, couldn't help think back on all those old Shaw Brother films or early Jet Li movies

The abbots themselves were not the best martial artist in the temple, they usually tend to be the most enlightened.
However, Shaolin always had that head of "Jing Gang" or head of "Luo Han" division-- they were the best Kung Fu master

[Ken Cheng]

Related query: during the timeframe of DGSD, do you believe that any combination of ten Shaolin monks that DOES NOT include the Janitor Monk or Hui Juk could defeat Kiu Fung?

[CC]

Related query: during the timeframe of DGSD, do you believe that any combination of ten Shaolin monks that DOES NOT include the Janitor Monk or Hui Juk could defeat Kiu Fung?

10 should be more than enough if they have mastered at least 1 of the 72 skills each. In fact, 5 would be enough (as Jy implied in 3rd edition)

That is using wuxia math of course.

But plot requirement as usual might dictate otherwise.

Or if it was a TV/movie adaptation with WTF CG dragons blowing up the whole place.

[kyss of the sword]

Lots of time, the shalom Abbott was in the top 3. Some stories in top 10. A few top 20.