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Thread: Zhang Sanfeng vs Xiao Yuan shan

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    Default Zhang Sanfeng vs Xiao Yuan shan

    the calmest fighter vs the one most likely to fly into a rage....

    who wins?

  2. #2
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    If Siu Yeun San can resolve it quickly (which he has a puncher's chance of doing if Cheung 3 Fung isn't ready for a fight, like he wasn't against that phony monk that got the drop on him), he might win.

    The longer the fight is drawn out, however, the more it favors Cheung 3 Fung.

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    Xiao Yuanshan win..

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    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    If Siu Yeun San can resolve it quickly (which he has a puncher's chance of doing if Cheung 3 Fung isn't ready for a fight, like he wasn't against that phony monk that got the drop on him), he might win.

    The longer the fight is drawn out, however, the more it favors Cheung 3 Fung.
    I agree that Z3F is incredible and may have reached a higher level of Martial theory.
    But we always have that whole "when 2 Greats fight... the older one will eventually get tired" argument. This has been proven true throughout novels.

    So I actually think it may be the opposite. Where Z3F should use his superior theory and refined control to take out XYS first. Otherwise as the fight progresses, XYS may gain an upper hand

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    While Z3F has better technique, XYS has "that fighting instinct" of XF. He could find a way to deal with Taiji if he could fight against MRB's Star-Shifting technique.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu3721 View Post
    I agree that Z3F is incredible and may have reached a higher level of Martial theory.
    But we always have that whole "when 2 Greats fight... the older one will eventually get tired" argument. This has been proven true throughout novels.
    I think there are 2 different things - 1) all else being equal, old age gets tired faster, 2) Taoist arts like Taiji and Vacant Fist last longer than normal arts. Zhang Sanfeng has both attributes. For simplicity, we can say they cancel out each other, so he's as good as a younger version with normal arts of the same level.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ View Post
    I think there are 2 different things - 1) all else being equal, old age gets tired faster, 2) Taoist arts like Taiji and Vacant Fist last longer than normal arts. Zhang Sanfeng has both attributes. For simplicity, we can say they cancel out each other, so he's as good as a younger version with normal arts of the same level.
    Although not a perfect example, but towards the end of ZBT and YG's duel, it did seem that ZBT was starting to run low on stamina and vigor as well as depleting his internal. So I think even with Taoist principles, the stamina of youth may prove to be slightly more resilient.

    It was also indicated by Author that ZBT does have better martial arts/techniques but could not match YG's ferocity/internal prior to using Sad Palms.

    I think it would be a similar issue with Z3F and XF. Given the large similarities between the opponents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu3721 View Post
    Although not a perfect example, but towards the end of ZBT and YG's duel, it did seem that ZBT was starting to run low on stamina and vigor as well as depleting his internal. So I think even with Taoist principles, the stamina of youth may prove to be slightly more resilient.

    It was also indicated by Author that ZBT does have better martial arts/techniques but could not match YG's ferocity/internal prior to using Sad Palms.

    I think it would be a similar issue with Z3F and XF. Given the large similarities between the opponents.
    ..
    Absoloutly agree..
    I doubt Taichi can match overbearing strike from someone like Xiao Yuanshan/Xiao Feng/Yang Guo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    ..
    I doubt Taichi can match overbearing strike from someone like Xiao Yuanshan/Xiao Feng/Yang Guo
    In Theory, Taichi isn't supposed to clash head on with the Xiao's or even Dragon Palm.
    It was established in ZBT vs YG that palm for palm, ZBT loses out and would eventually be overcome. But ZBT's Vacant fist (or any other Taoist "soft" style) is meant to neutralize, and thus able to conserve power.

    GWM may be the only shown to be able to clash head on with YG, and even GWM's powerful strikes can be neutralized by ZBT's vacant fist.

    So I think comparing just the techniques of the opponents may not be the best indicator of who the victor will be. i.e. XF's overbearing style/technique may not necessarily grant him a win over Taichi or Z3F.

    However, other factors may contribute to one or the other's success

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    Truee..
    So would Z3F neutralized XYS strike with Tai Chi or any Wudang "soft" attack

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    I mean can Tai Chi "worked" against great level opponent like Xiao Yuanshan/Xiao Feng/Yang Guo..

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I mean can Tai Chi "worked" against great level opponent like Xiao Yuanshan/Xiao Feng/Yang Guo..
    Theoretically yes. But like Dogu 9 Swords their are too many practical variables. In the case of the people you have mentioned, if someone wanted to use Tai Chi of any other 'soft arts', then they would need to have an almost godlike level of understanding in the art to pull it off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I mean can Tai Chi "worked" against great level opponent like Xiao Yuanshan/Xiao Feng/Yang Guo..
    In general, most "Greats" lvl martial arts can balance out against each other. It doesn't necessarily mean the techniques are equal in every aspect or would yield same results in a direct clash. For example, there is no point to clash Dog Beating Stick head on with HIS. The latter would most likely shatter the former. But DBS could have a technique to parry or ensnare the HIS.

    Also, Greats lvl techniques usually require some level of sophistication or internal energy on behalf of the user. And thus should be able to be wielded in a way to combat other Greats lvl techniques.

    So ZSF (who is a Great) using Taichi (which is a Greats lvl technique), should be able to confront XF using XL18P.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu3721 View Post
    Although not a perfect example, but towards the end of ZBT and YG's duel, it did seem that ZBT was starting to run low on stamina and vigor as well as depleting his internal. So I think even with Taoist principles, the stamina of youth may prove to be slightly more resilient.

    It was also indicated by Author that ZBT does have better martial arts/techniques but could not match YG's ferocity/internal prior to using Sad Palms.

    I think it would be a similar issue with Z3F and XF. Given the large similarities between the opponents.
    I think it really depends on how efficient ZSF's Taiji is. If he is so good that he can use 10-20% of power to neutralize XYS' 100% power (which is a stated feature of Taiji), then long fight may not be a disadvantage. JY says something like "Taiji is groundbreaking, surpassing all previous arts in philosophy." So I think it should be more efficient than Vacant Fist, although we never see ZSF in action with it. Even Qing dynasty Taiji practitioners show some success with the conservation attribute, so I'm willing to give the Real Man some benefit of doubt.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    I think Tai Chi only look "good" when Wuji used against "weaker" opponent like Zhao Min buddies or Xuan Ming Elders..
    I've highly doubt Wuji even Zhang Sanfeng with Tai Chi can match someone as strong as himself 🤔🤔🤔🤔

  16. #16
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I think Tai Chi only look "good" when Wuji used against "weaker" opponent like Zhao Min buddies or Xuan Ming Elders..
    I've highly doubt Wuji even Zhang Sanfeng with Tai Chi can match someone as strong as himself 🤔🤔🤔🤔
    I think he can; it's unlikely Cheung 3 Fung invented Tai Chi techniques to lose fights.

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    Yeah..
    But Wuji/Z3F never fought someone at they level also Z3F not sure he can overcome A San at Wudang with Tai Chi😣😣😣😣

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Yeah..
    But Wuji/Z3F never fought someone at they level also Z3F not sure he can overcome A San at Wudang with Tai Chi😣😣😣😣
    Taiji is pretty unproven from what we've seen. Wuji wasn't particularly impressive with it even with the lower quality of opponents though we can explain that with lack of experience and time using it.

    The other Wudang heroes who briefly use it are also pretty inexperienced, so it's really only Chongxu who has a chance to display it, which again while decent still didn't feel THAT great.

    I think it's another author intention feeling that I personally am willing to place it alongside other Great-level martial arts even though it hasn't quite proven it's really very good at all within the events of the story.

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    Z3F once thought that he was not at Guo Jing "level" since Guo Jing ~/= Xiao Feng/Xiao Yuanshan thats mean Xiao Yuanshan is really stronger than him..
    Zhou Botong also once said when Guo Jing 18 Dragon Palm "reached" Hong Qigong "level" his soft art wouldn't be "worked" again
    🤔🤔🤔🤔

  20. #20
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Z3F once thought that he was not at Guo Jing "level"
    I don't recall this.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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