Wuxia storytelling moments known to be/you could tell were pure marketing?

[Ken Cheng]

The wuxia authors wrote wuxia stories partly because they enjoyed it and had something to say, but also largely because they had to pay their bills. Jin Yong, Gu Long, Leung Yu Sang, and the others likely would have never written/published their classic stories if there had been no monetary reward for doing so. They all needed to eat, and for all that effort and time spent, they expected and needed the money that came with writing the novels.

Are there any moments in wuxia that you know or feel were written a certain way not necessarily because it was what was natural or desirable for the writers to include as storytellers, but were done purely with commercial/marketing goals in mind?

I've noticed two, both from ROCH.

1. Jin Yong's original intent for ROCH was for Little Dragon Girl to die and for Yeung Gor to hook up with Gwok Fu (or something like that). In any case, the famous happy ending that was published was not what Jin Yong originally intended. He ultimately published the happy ending because he knew that a bummer ending would likely cost him readers. Thus, Jin Yong went with what he believed would sell to the audience rather than what he originally wanted to do as a storyteller.

2. That whole ending scene featuring Cheung Gwun Bo and Gok Yeun at the summit of Mt. Hua was clearly a setup for HSDS, and had nothing to do with the story of ROCH, which had already concluded. That scene was pure marketing...very awkward in terms of storytelling flow, but what a way to tease the next book in the series!

[CC]

Ewoks defeating Imperial Stormtrooper legion. I never forgave George for that.

[ihavequestion]

1. Jin Yong's original intent for ROCH was for Little Dragon Girl to die and for Yeung Gor to hook up with Gwok Fu (or something like that). In any case, the famous happy ending that was published was not what Jin Yong originally intended. He ultimately published the happy ending because he knew that a bummer ending would likely cost him readers. Thus, Jin Yong went with what he believed would sell to the audience rather than what he originally wanted to do as a storyteller.

This is probably JY's biggest regret in his career and I wonder why he didn't change it to his original idea in the newest edition (can't tell any reason that can stop him from doing it). Just remove YG's swear in chapter 7 and he can safely hook up with anyone.

[tape]

Ewoks defeating Imperial Stormtrooper legion. I never forgave George for that.

Maybe the Ewoks actually had deep inner strength and threw those rocks as hard as YG's rock that blasted through Kublai.

[ToastedRossi]

Mingpao was under a lot of pressure in its early years, and much of the readership came from Jin Yong fans. It's no surprise that this period will have writing decisions made based on drawing in more readers. Here are two more from this time period:

1. The first two chapters of HSDS take place some 75 years before the beginning of the main story. There is only one character from these chapters who is still even alive later in the book, and whatever impact within could have been convey in many other ways. It ended up making the already unbalanced structure of HSDS even more lopsided, and it's no surprise that almost all TV adaptations omit it. What Jin Yong was trying to do is pretty obvious though: it's a story hook for ROCH readers as it carries over a lot of material from that book.

2. The very existence of the Yellow Lady in HSDS. Everything she did could have been accomplished in ways other than shoehorning in a character who otherwise has no reason for being in the book. She's another obvious example of writing purely to appeal to readers of the previous book.

And basically everything that Gu Long wrote late in his career. He had money problems and writing was his sole source of income. I think that you can notice how his paragraph structure changes from his early books to his later ones; this is not a matter of writing style.

1. Jin Yong's original intent for ROCH was for Little Dragon Girl to die and for Yeung Gor to hook up with Gwok Fu (or something like that). In any case, the famous happy ending that was published was not what Jin Yong originally intended. He ultimately published the happy ending because he knew that a bummer ending would likely cost him readers. Thus, Jin Yong went with what he believed would sell to the audience rather than what he originally wanted to do as a storyteller.

Yang Guo wasn't going to end up with anyone. The most likely hookup was Guo Xiang, and that wasn't going to happen given the way the story was being set up. I suspect that Jin Yong didn't plan to have Xiaolongnu survive until a fair way into releasing the sixteen-years-later portion of the novel; and only after a fair bit of fan outcry. Remember that this book was being serialized daily so there was plenty of opportunity to change the plans halfway.

This is probably JY's biggest regret in his career and I wonder why he didn't change it to his original idea in the newest edition (can't tell any reason that can stop him from doing it). Just remove YG's swear in chapter 7 and he can safely hook up with anyone.

Why do you think Jin Yong regretted it? Does that come up in interviews or story notes anywhere? I would assume that he'd think that the change, while not executed super smoothly, fits better. Also, killing off Xiaolongnu would also elminate the Yellow Lady, and that would be a pain in the *** to rewrite.

[Ian Liew]

If it really upset him so much he could always change the ending with the 4th edition or something - there's no point in regretting, and it's not like he'd worry now if the readers decided they didn't like the story - they could always read a previous edition.

I'd be happier if he'd devote his creative juices into a last hurrah and write a new novel, although it's going to be hard to top Duke of Mount Deer, and who doesn't like to end on a high?

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

If it really upset him so much he could always change the ending with the 4th edition or something - there's no point in regretting, and it's not like he'd worry now if the readers decided they didn't like the story - they could always read a previous edition.

I'd be happier if he'd devote his creative juices into a last hurrah and write a new novel, although it's going to be hard to top Duke of Mount Deer, and who doesn't like to end on a high?

A new JY story, that would be interesting. What period would you like him to cover?

Personally if we take DOMD as a stopping of point, we can either go backwards and have a story about say a captain in Coxinga's navy. Remember Coxinga's men were originally pirates and smugglers giving plenty of opportunity for intrigue and double crosses in the spirit of DOMD. Heck he could even link up the two stories and have the 'captain' as the father of Wei Xiaobao.

Or JY could go forward and make a Wong Fei hong type story, showing the transition from Wuxia to the modern world, giving great epic scope.

[Ian Liew]

A new JY story, that would be interesting. What period would you like him to cover?

Personally if we take DOMD as a stopping of point, we can either go backwards and have a story about say a captain in Coxinga's navy. Remember Coxinga's men were originally pirates and smugglers giving plenty of opportunity for intrigue and double crosses in the spirit of DOMD. Heck he could even link up the two stories and have the 'captain' as the father of Wei Xiaobao.

Or JY could go forward and make a Wong Fei hong type story, showing the transition from Wuxia to the modern world, giving great epic scope.

I don't think the period would matter much to me. It's the colourful characters, the plots and the wuxia setting which do it for me. He could go back to the Song Dynasty if he wanted, or continued working on the Qing. His novels weren't in any particular chronological order after all. Another memorable hero, heroine and a horde of characters with funny names and funnier titles would go a long way to grab my interest!

[ToastedRossi]

If it really upset him so much he could always change the ending with the 4th edition or something - there's no point in regretting, and it's not like he'd worry now if the readers decided they didn't like the story - they could always read a previous edition.

I'd be happier if he'd devote his creative juices into a last hurrah and write a new novel, although it's going to be hard to top Duke of Mount Deer, and who doesn't like to end on a high?

Jin Yong hasn't released a new novel in 35 years so I highly doubt there's any chance of anything new. I suspect that he has tried writing new material but it's never seen light of day because he didn't think it was up to snuff. Perhaps it's like Ni Huang said, that Jin Yong told him that he can't write any more!