The Heaven Sword and Dragon Saber 2018

[piyemingo]

And I was right, hotpot scene was cut out.

I think there is not going to be a single kiss til the end of the series.

On the bright side, ZM is even more baqi now. She alone scolds the whole Ming sect and no one dares to talk back lol.

I have a feeling this political scheming in the later portio was edited and re-edited, causing the initial delay in start date for the series. A lot of scenes were hastily edited while you can see how tight the editing was in the early episodes. for example, when ZM wipes the tear for ZWJ, the same scene (from different angles) was put together but not in the correct order, so her hand was up in his face in one scene and starting to come up the next. It's minor details but annoying as hell, because you know the production team is capable of producing high quality but for whatever reason (either conflicting directions during post-production or pressure from the censorship authority) the quality has gone down visibly in the last 10 episodes.
The cut down in number of episodes doesn't help either.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

I always get the urge to slap ZWJ at this stage of the story.

[piyemingo]

I almost vomit blood when the wedding scene ends.

[piyemingo]

Actually u may be right aniking. All the quarreling scenes - no trace of YX. Whose side is he on? He was smart to keep himself from this mess bc he wants to keep ZM alive at GMD for other purposes (trap RYW, maybe).

Lol only ZM can do this. Stay in husband home, scold everyone from grandfather in law to uncle in law to husband fiance.

[piyemingo]

I always get the urge to slap ZWJ at this stage of the story.

He only has 1 expression throughout ep 42 "i am f*** tired of all this shit". Poor him haha.

[aniking_8]

Actually u may be right aniking. All the quarreling scenes - no trace of YX. Whose side is he on? He was smart to keep himself from this mess bc he wants to keep ZM alive at GMD for other purposes (trap RYW, maybe).

Lol only ZM can do this. Stay in husband home, scold everyone from grandfather in law to uncle in law to husband fiance.

I like yang in first half or third, but ever since zwj gain all the powers, he's kind of annoying. Like Zm's bro, there's love and respect as well as jealousy shown especially when his beloved daughter won't be mrs.cult leader 's wife. I start to understand why everyone used to hate him. He's kind of a smartass that look down on others. I know he's not evil, but ming cult needs people like zhu to succeed. I like the narrative and enemy context with zm actually care for people and not just zwj. She even went as far as want replace her emperor with her childhood cousin essentially to bring peace to china. However, I'm not sure if fan Yao saved her to be on her side or ming cult side. Clearly, ming cult want a han emperor even if mongol is good like in later jin yong qing novels. We can see zhu historically used tyrant means to stabilized china and secure his power. Here, the fatass portrays him as a very fake man that gain respects for his war combat abilities and bravery. However, he's up to no good in calculating.

[aniking_8]

I almost vomit blood when the wedding scene ends.

Another week and they used the preview from last week as cliffhanger tease. It reminds me of japanese toku teased a new power up or powerful person enemy hero alike in this week preview, but delayed it to next week(turns out its another cop out tease) .

[aniking_8]

And I was right, hotpot scene was cut out.

I think there is not going to be a single kiss til the end of the series.

On the bright side, ZM is even more baqi now. She alone scolds the whole Ming sect and no one dares to talk back lol.

I have a feeling this political scheming in the later portio was edited and re-edited, causing the initial delay in start date for the series. A lot of scenes were hastily edited while you can see how tight the editing was in the early episodes. for example, when ZM wipes the tear for ZWJ, the same scene (from different angles) was put together but not in the correct order, so her hand was up in his face in one scene and starting to come up the next. It's minor details but annoying as hell, because you know the production team is capable of producing high quality but for whatever reason (either conflicting directions during post-production or pressure from the censorship authority) the quality has gone down visibly in the last 10 episodes.
The cut down in number of episodes doesn't help either.

There's obviously ng bts blooper didn't make cut like kunlun elder get smash by zwj in brightness peak, but stunt double clearly shown a young black hair disciple like man. There's also walking scenes like yang bufai moving closer to Eagle king, but there's a shot replayed her walking further away. She manage to comeback this episode. I guess last week the actress was absent because its location shoot and not in set. Wudang scenes might be filmed in dufferent parts and not altogether to save budget. The wedding is nice and smaller compares to 09, which zzr reveal to be some liaozhai monster with those claws. Cgi and practical effects are good depending on executions. There will never be 100% one to one scale realism. It bears 03 bs video game graphic from time to time and 80s rehash stock footage movements. I enjoyed brightness peak battle , but some stuff like pagoda and island are off. Yellow dress lady entrance was nice, but no face reveal in air makes me think they're guys cross dressing like with zzr and co while performing jumping scenes. In this day and age, it's hard to beat saturated market with fresher unseen adaptions that possess star powers and scripts/characters that doesn't required them to compete with past iconic definitive character portray legends. This hsds tries too hard to imitate 94 with nostalgic theme and Kathy chow casting while loch17 tries to be 82. Also, I think 94 wasn't that good character portray wise as well as loch is just overall better. Zwj must carried hero mantle very rushed after growing up and 1/4 of the series is about his childhood and father pov as well as yang xiao love line. The rest is politic.

[aniking_8]

YL actress did well standing out, but not a fan of overused memory loss plot line trope. It's like twin sister, coma, etc.

I preferred her scarred in 09 and other scaring zzr in her nightmares. I do like zzr fierceness next week. I didnt think the actress can do it. She seems typecasted as innocent or slightly skanky before while ZM actress is casted in similar more open gf type that isn't skanky, but can be bold about love.

it's awkward zwj keep remind himself and others such as zzr, zm, or yl that they look as pretty as his mom or they're cooking are nearly the same. It gives an incest vibe. I guess jin yong want viewers interpret he miss his mom and 1st cousin marriage is ok in ancient china. Side note trivia, zzr's sect is actually all male and have male students because her master's "lover" here is one. Historically, women keep 3 inches feet back then, so none are allowed learn how to fight even nuns i suppose. Yangbufai stands out more than XZ. There's still no CX despite all promos. Sung is like a second male lead.

[aniking_8]

Final note, I'll still watched it for zzr change and that's when she stand out more than zm. Timeline

40 years ago-Xx golden lion' family murdered 20 years before he met zwj's parent. Odd they didnt used 03 yss remembering him as her uncle.
20 years ago-Cult leader yang and wife went missing.
XZ age is 20, but she mentions 30-40 years ago he met silver leaf. CX had affair with mrs.yang for 20 years becayse he mentioned traveling in and out changer hundreds of times, but he murdered XX family of 13 fourty years ago. Did novel messup like with huang rong age?
10 years-fanyao see CX walked out ming cult and disfigured himself as disguise for spying on Mongols.
Z3f 90th birthday was in eps1, so even oldest pupil say 30s meaning he started wudang at 70.

[piyemingo]

Just put down some random thoughts as I am watching ytd eps. Havent got time to read thru all your posts yet (that's for lunch ). I kinda said I will go deeper into this topic of why ZM likes ZWJ so much before, and now the perfect opportunity has arisen.

My favourite moment is ep 42 is when ZM reminds ZWJ, "Dont lose your original self". Im not sure if "original self" is the right word here for "chu xin". In Chinese, there is a poem called San Zi Jing (Poems of 3 Words) that everyone must learn by heart since a toddler. It starts with "人之初，性本善 rén zhī chū, xìng běn shàn", which means everyone is born with a good heart.

ZWJ is a rare individual because he is able to retain that "Chu xin" well into adulthood. JY once commented that ZWJ's over-trusting of people is not a sign of naivete, but rather "tian zhen", or a godsent quality. He only remembers the good things people did to him, but forgets about all the bad things. That's why he agrees to meet ZM at their first hotpot despite ppl saying she is untrustworthy (not entirely just b/c he has a crush with her), and that's why he is still trusting of ZZR despite all the signs (b/c his first impression of ZZR is the good girl at the Han Shui river).

I think at the first hotpot, ZWJ's talk about forgiving struck something within ZM. ZM probably started like ZWJ, who was very loyal, emotional, passionate person. But somewhere in her early age, she lost her chuxin after seeing all the politics at the court and became the ruthless person when she first appeared. I think the turning point for her is at the island, when ZWJ talked about forgiving people who murdered his parents and again when he saw her burying the dead sailors and saw her true self through the outward proud attitude.

In another word, ZWJ made ZM found her chuxin and now ZM doesnt want him to lose that chuxin. ZM and CYZ's strengths are in the political world so she is able to see through CYZ's ambition, while the rest of the Ming sect are all pugilists and are good at fighting only, not scheming. She knows that a portion of Ming sect is using ZWJ for their own political cause, and can eventually force him to do unrightful things in the future for the sake of "protecting Ming sect".

Overall, except for the hastily done editing and pacing, this change to HSDS is good in developing ZWJ as a character. His inner turmoil before the wedding is no longer just centering around love and remorse towards ZZR, but rather his own conflicts as he starts to learn how to express his own desire and to have his own judgement, not trying to please everyone.

And to conclude, the word chuxin struck me rightaway because I've been listening to the song, "Ke wei yong heng" (What is eternity) and there is indeed a line that says, "How many people are there, who can retain their original self after so much conflicts in life". Among the 3 main characters, one has lost and re-found her chu xin, one has always have and is struggling to retain his chu xin, and one had already lost her own the first time she stabbed her own childhood friend.

[piyemingo]

Just put down some random thoughts as I am watching ytd eps. Havent got time to read thru all your posts yet (that's for lunch ). I kinda said I will go deeper into this topic of why ZM likes ZWJ so much before, and now the perfect opportunity has arisen.

My favourite moment is ep 42 is when ZM reminds ZWJ, "Dont lose your original self". Im not sure if "original self" is the right word here for "chu xin". In Chinese, there is a poem called San Zi Jing (Poems of 3 Words) that everyone must learn by heart since a toddler. It starts with "人之初，性本善 rén zhī chū, xìng běn shàn", which means everyone is born with a good heart.

ZWJ is a rare individual because he is able to retain that "Chu xin" well into adulthood. JY once commented that ZWJ's over-trusting of people is not a sign of naivete, but rather "tian zhen", or a godsent quality. He only remembers the good things people did to him, but forgets about all the bad things. That's why he agrees to meet ZM at their first hotpot despite ppl saying she is untrustworthy (not entirely just b/c he has a crush with her), and that's why he is still trusting of ZZR despite all the signs (b/c his first impression of ZZR is the good girl at the Han Shui river).

I think at the first hotpot, ZWJ's talk about forgiving struck something within ZM. ZM probably started like ZWJ, who was very loyal, emotional, passionate person. But somewhere in her early age, she lost her chuxin after seeing all the politics at the court and became the ruthless person when she first appeared. I think the turning point for her is at the island, when ZWJ talked about forgiving people who murdered his parents and again when he saw her burying the dead sailors and saw her true self through the outward proud attitude.

In another word, ZWJ made ZM found her chuxin and now ZM doesnt want him to lose that chuxin. ZM and CYZ's strengths are in the political world so she is able to see through CYZ's ambition, while the rest of the Ming sect are all pugilists and are good at fighting only, not scheming. She knows that a portion of Ming sect is using ZWJ for their own political cause, and can eventually force him to do unrightful things in the future for the sake of "protecting Ming sect".

Overall, except for the hastily done editing and pacing, this change to HSDS is good in developing ZWJ as a character. His inner turmoil before the wedding is no longer just centering around love and remorse towards ZZR, but rather his own conflicts as he starts to learn how to express his own desire and to have his own judgement, not trying to please everyone.

And to conclude, the word chuxin struck me rightaway because I've been listening to the song, "Ke wei yong heng" (What is eternity) and there is indeed a line that says, "How many people are there, who can retain their original self after so much conflicts in life". Among the 3 main characters, one has lost and re-found her chu xin, one has always have and is struggling to retain his chu xin, and one had already lost her own the first time she stabbed her own childhood friend.

oh and wkeej (was it you who asked), this song is ZWJ's theme. you can see the lyrics reflecting the journey of ZWJ from the start til the end.

[aniking_8]

oh and wkeej (was it you who asked), this song is ZWJ's theme. you can see the lyrics reflecting the journey of ZWJ from the start til the end.

Anyone will be cynical, crazy, thirst for revenge, and depressed to suicide if they have to go through zwj childhood of losing family, tricked by many(I mean so many, and bullied by far more. Even when he gain fame, power internally and external in form of leading ming cult, he's stuck with gettung more hate from many wuxia and Mongol side. All those expectations and liabilities. I remember zwj was pretty lucky, but this version makes it a downer to become him.

[wkeej]

Aniking_8: I think FY's saving of ZM is more on the Ming Sect side. At that time, they need her to help in the overthrow of the Mongol Emperor.

Based on my limited history, when the Mongol emperor wanted to escape back to Mongolia, the prince appointed/successor was not a capable person too. He just want power. If the latter person is what zm recommends, then it seems strange.

HSDS in this series have moved to sadness (ZCS-YSS, JXF death) to hope (when zwj grows up) to happiness (when all the supporting actors get together) to depression (departure of zm) to intellectual/lots of talking (whether to kill the Emperor now).

Looks like there will be more talk/less action in the remaining episodes.

Just a side-note: If DMJ and ZM bicker, who will win? :-)

[wkeej]

On one hand, the series do show that zwj like zzr. He was quite happy in announcing his marriage plans to zsf. He was quite happy holding her hands when meeting the Ming Sect members (to the extent of some surprised glances by YX, ZD). How many other times have he held zzr's hand?
1. when they were young, escaping from the Mongol soldiers. But this may be due to the need to run together.
2. when they decide to leave at the pagoda stage.
3. when they reach mainland disguised as beggars.

How many times have he held zm's hand? Zero, right to now?

[piyemingo]

Haha that's the debate I hesitate to enter. Basically poor ZWJ is the victim of the hate debate now. Each one has his own interpretation of whether ZWJ is always clear in his relationship w ZM.
But anw, from my POV, I can see hints of him being frustrated with having to please ZZR when she is jealous/angry. Their relationship is kinda respectful, but distant. Perhaps Joseph is not so good at playing the emotions with more nuances.
The part at WD is more of happiness when reuniting w his family. We all know WD has a special place in his heart. So its more like he is happy to show his Tai shifu that he is gonna get married, that he has grown up, to make his Tai shifu happy after what has happened to SQS.

Dont forget he skipped the holding hands part and went straight to carrying ZM, not just once, but 3 times! The last one (after Gai Bang) was not necessary, but he did it anyway. So with ZZR it's kinda like he consciously do it to appease her. For ZM it'a pretty instinctive

[piyemingo]

Anyone will be cynical, crazy, thirst for revenge, and depressed to suicide if they have to go through zwj childhood of losing family, tricked by many(I mean so many, and bullied by far more. Even when he gain fame, power internally and external in form of leading ming cult, he's stuck with gettung more hate from many wuxia and Mongol side. All those expectations and liabilities. I remember zwj was pretty lucky, but this version makes it a downer to become him.

Yes agree. that is more expected of a normal person. ZWJ, hence, is the ideal person that JY wants to introduce to the public, representative of what his ideal moral values are. Someone likes ZWJ likely wont exist in today society.

And he is indeed very lucky to meet extraordinary people (Z3F, Hu doctor, ZM) who went to great lengths to protect him from external influence. Z3F moral lessons in his early age no doubt helps prevent him from becoming a revengeful person. It's a counteract to YSS and XX's wish for revenge.

[laurenhuang]

I was watching snippet of the livestream of episodes 41 and 42, and I wish ZM didn't go to the Ming Sect prior to the wedding.
Fan Yao saved her and brought her to Ming Sect and that was too much drama. I feel like those catfight scenes with ZZR were unnecessary. Ming Sect members clearly didn't like her presence. If the writers had just cut out the beheading scene and let ZM stay at the palace and only disrupt the wedding would be better. Her entrance to the wedding would be more significant than the fact that she was just at Brighten Peak like the day before.

Please correct me if I'm wrong I skipped left and right to get to the wedding scene.

I wish she did not confront ZZR too
But i view it as an effect ZM trying to create and cast a fear in ZZR. Making her succumb to the feeling of guilt or fear of being expose. Before you find out the truth, you cast a fear on your enemy first, making them show their tail.
even if it failed, the psychological effect is there

[laurenhuang]

Haha that's the debate I hesitate to enter. Basically poor ZWJ is the victim of the hate debate now. Each one has his own interpretation of whether ZWJ is always clear in his relationship w ZM.
But anw, from my POV, I can see hints of him being frustrated with having to please ZZR when she is jealous/angry. Their relationship is kinda respectful, but distant. Perhaps Joseph is not so good at playing the emotions with more nuances.
The part at WD is more of happiness when reuniting w his family. We all know WD has a special place in his heart. So its more like he is happy to show his Tai shifu that he is gonna get married, that he has grown up, to make his Tai shifu happy after what has happened to SQS.

Dont forget he skipped the holding hands part and went straight to carrying ZM, not just once, but 3 times! The last one (after Gai Bang) was not necessary, but he did it anyway. So with ZZR it's kinda like he consciously do it to appease her. For ZM it'a pretty instinctive

I totally agree.
towards ZM, it seems like every intimate touch is based on his instinct.
But towards ZZR, he has reservations. Even when he want to hold her hands, he do it because there is a need to.
To pacify her, to introduce her to WD elders to make them happy, to bring her to somewhere otherwise she won't move LOL

[laurenhuang]

Aniking_8: I think FY's saving of ZM is more on the Ming Sect side. At that time, they need her to help in the overthrow of the Mongol Emperor.

Based on my limited history, when the Mongol emperor wanted to escape back to Mongolia, the prince appointed/successor was not a capable person too. He just want power. If the latter person is what zm recommends, then it seems strange.

HSDS in this series have moved to sadness (ZCS-YSS, JXF death) to hope (when zwj grows up) to happiness (when all the supporting actors get together) to depression (departure of zm) to intellectual/lots of talking (whether to kill the Emperor now).

Looks like there will be more talk/less action in the remaining episodes.

Just a side-note: If DMJ and ZM bicker, who will win? :-)

The last fight scene could be Shaolin Lion Slaying session and I am pretty looking forward to it.

I believe ZM will win hahahahahaha