How formidable would YTS or GST be if infused with Greats-level inner power?

[Ken Cheng]

In LOCH, both Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen were among the story's weakest fighters due to their severe limitations (compared to other characters) in terms of both fighting technique and inner power. If either Yeung or Gwok were infused with Greats-level inner power, with no change to their external skills, how formidable would they be?

[Snafu3721]

They would definitely jump quite a few tiers

Some extremely good examples of how Internal alone boosts martial prowess

1) Once GJ learned QZ internal methods, he is able to tank a hit from his masters.
2) ZWJ without the QK bag and Taichi fist was already able to accomplish many amazing feats
3) YTZ with YJJ yoga was able to instinctively react and do flips to avoid being struck purely on his Internal
4) XZ was able to throw acorns and kill people just by focusing his Qi

So they should be able to fight off the likes of 3rd tier fighters in LOCH

And once they master their internal control. Even with really weak external, they can become formidable.
It would be like XZ using his weak Shaolin fist but using his massive internal at the Shaolin meet

[WuxiaMaster]

Depending on how "Great" the internal is, I think they could reach YTZ LV or ZWJ LV after exiting the valley.

[Ken Cheng]

Depending on how "Great" the internal is, I think they could reach YTZ LV or ZWJ LV after exiting the valley.

I was thinking of the level of the Greats at the end of ROCH.

[WuxiaMaster]

I was thinking of the level of the Greats at the end of ROCH.

I think that might be too strong - while the "Yang Family Spear" can be consider a strong technique (think B or B+), I'm not sure if it is comparable to proven "Great LV Technique" like XL18Z, Yiyang Finger, etc (grade A).

I'm assuming Great LV internal as "4 Greats" internal (A Grade), not YJJ/JYSG (A+ Grade) internal.

[Ken Cheng]

I think that might be too strong - while the "Yang Family Spear" can be consider a strong technique (think B or B+), I'm not sure if it is comparable to proven "Great LV Technique" like XL18Z, Yiyang Finger, etc (grade A).

I'm assuming Great LV internal as "4 Greats" internal (A Grade), not YJJ/JYSG (A+ Grade) internal.

What I meant to say is end-of-ROCH Greats level inner power combined with YTS and GST's very limited external skills.

[Western Eccentric]

What I meant to say is end-of-ROCH Greats level inner power combined with YTS and GST's very limited external skills.

They would be perhaps around Lv 55 to 60..

[Western Eccentric]

If Wuji at Lv 60 after 9 Yang and just very basic martial art from Xie Xun/Zhang Chuisan (before Qian Kun Lesson) then Yang Tiexin/Guo Xiao Tian only have very weak external skill (compare to top tier skill like Shaolin/Wudang's skill) so with great level internal skill they'll be at least Lv 55 IMHO..

[Snafu3721]

I think we are looking down a bit on Yang family spear and the effects of ROCH lvl internal
Yang family spear may not be top tier A or A+ rank like WuxiaMaster mentioned, but the spear shouldn't be complete scrub martial arts

Wuji after basic martial arts and 9-yang would lose to YTX with ROCH internal and Yang family spear IMO. hence YTX should be even higher than lvl 60.

I think we should also clarify, are we including GJ, and YG as part of the equation? Because I think in terms of internal, GJ and YG is superior to the others by significant margin. But even if we don't include GJ and YG... let's say that YTX had YD's level of internal with all it's purity and refinement... this is close to the levels of ZSF

Given that kind of Internal power... I think lvl 60 is a good estimation (given how YTZ with really poor family martial arts is also there)

[CC]

In LOCH, both Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen were among the story's weakest fighters due to their severe limitations (compared to other characters) in terms of both fighting technique and inner power. If either Yeung or Gwok were infused with Greats-level inner power, with no change to their external skills, how formidable would they be?

How about to make it more fun we give them Chapter 50 Xu Zhu's internal instead?

[Ken Cheng]

How about to make it more fun we give them Chapter 50 Xu Zhu's internal instead?

By that time, Hui Juk had actually learned to fight somewhat, hadn't he? In terms of external fighting ability, both Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen were already much better than pre-inner power boost Hui Juk, so they wouldn't do worse than he did immediately after the boost. It's a different story after Hui Juk learned to fight properly.

Of course, with that kind of inner power boost, it'd be much easier for both Yeung and Gwok to improve their external techniques.

[CC]

By that time, Hui Juk had actually learned to fight somewhat, hadn't he? .

Somewhat is quite a big understatement.

[WuxiaMaster]

I presume Chapter 50 is after TSTL death/at Shaolin battle.

At that point, Xu Zhu already have Great LV external technique as well, but his combat ability/experience is still very low.

Otherwise, I think he would have DESTROYED Ding Chun Qiu in about 3 moves.

It is somewhat similar to Duan Yu case (but to a lesser extent).

[Western Eccentric]

I presume Chapter 50 is after TSTL death/at Shaolin battle.

At that point, Xu Zhu already have Great LV external technique as well, but his combat ability/experience is still very low.

Otherwise, I think he would have DESTROYED Ding Chun Qiu in about 3 moves.

It is somewhat similar to Duan Yu case (but to a lesser extent).

Even Xiao Feng can 1 shot kill Ding Chunqiu (if he want)..

[Ian Liew]

By the time TSTL had passed away, XZ had already learned all of her external skills, even if he wasn't very experienced in utilising them. He would have had at least the Tianshan 6yang palms (which is used to launch and cure the Life-Death talisman) and the Tianshan plum-catching hands. A better example of a walking internal monster with little ability would be before he met TSTL, where, if he wished to, he could kill someone simply by throwing an acorn at them. I think Yang Tiexin and Guo Shaotian would be able to do much more than that. I suspect, though, that someone battle-hardened like Qiu Chuji would be able to take advantage of their weaknesses in skill to defeat them if he really wanted to. Yang family spear, after all, has almost no footwork since it's supposed to be a mounted skill, while Guo Shaotian's skills were supposed to be even weaker than Yang Tiexin's.

[PJ]

Are we sure Guo and Yang > Pre-XYP Xuzhu (who trained in Shaolin his whole life) in external skills? They should all be around the same age. Something is wrong if you've been raised & trained in the most reputable MA institution and you are still worse than... Yang Tiexin.

[Ken Cheng]

Are we sure Guo and Yang > Pre-XYP Xuzhu (who trained in Shaolin his whole life) in external skills? They should all be around the same age. Something is wrong if you've been raised & trained in the most reputable MA institution and you are still worse than... Yang Tiexin.

Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen were fairly impressive against soldiers. Pre-Siu Yiu Sect Hui Juk looked impressive against no one. If I were to bet on YTS or GST against pre-Siu Yiu Sect Hui Juk in a fair, one-on-one fight, I wouldn't favor Hui Juk at all.

[WuxiaMaster]

Are we sure Guo and Yang > Pre-XYP Xuzhu (who trained in Shaolin his whole life) in external skills? They should all be around the same age. Something is wrong if you've been raised & trained in the most reputable MA institution and you are still worse than... Yang Tiexin.

While Xu Zhu is trained in Shaolin arts, he is definitely not the brighest student. In fact, wasn't he potrayed as quite kinda "dumb"?

He's probably near bottom of the class in term of martial arts talent, so I'll probably give the edge to YTX and GXT too.

[tape]

While Xu Zhu is trained in Shaolin arts, he is definitely not the brighest student. In fact, wasn't he potrayed as quite kinda "dumb"?

He's probably near bottom of the class in term of martial arts talent, so I'll probably give the edge to YTX and GXT too.

I think there was some line where it said Xu Zhu trained in one of the basic forms for 10+ years without much progress. Definitely an average to below average talent for martial arts, but it being a Shaolin skill after all I'd still take him over a random martial artist with no real teacher.

[PJ]

So if Yang / Guo got 3 XYP elders' IEs, they should achieve mightier greatness than XZ!