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Thread: Do you buy the idea that Kau Cheen Yan's martial arts level is 98% of an LOCH Great?

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    Default Do you buy the idea that Kau Cheen Yan's martial arts level is 98% of an LOCH Great?

    Jin Yong explicitly characterized Iron Palm Union Chief Kau Cheen Yan's martial arts as 98% that of an LOCH Great, but judging from KCY's performances against Gwok Jing and other opponents (compared to performances by the Greats), he doesn't seem to be quite at that level. By my estimation, Kau Cheen Yan is only 85% of a Great at best, and might even be as low as 80% of a Great.

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    When I think about it, besides young Guo Jing thinking his martial arts were no lower than Hong Qigong (which can easily be off by a large amount considering his level at the time), how many other instances did other characters or JY specifically state he was equal to the Greats?

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    If we talking about QQR he's never been at the same level as "Greats" even in ROCH I mean he alwayz 90%-95% of Greats (at best) all the time LOCH or ROCH..

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    I have a feeling that end LOCH GJ can probably edge out QQR. LOL.

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    It's might be true and quite possible but in death or life duel I'll give my money for QQR..

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    This is a good place to continue discussion on QQR, since the other thread was "kidnapped" by ZWJ...

    Regardless of whether you think ZWJ underperformed or not, he was at least supported by his Great LV skillset. That makes it possible to rate him at ROCH Great at worst(for people who do think so), to as good as GJ/YG.

    For QQR, he has no such imba skillset to fall back on. Hence, we can only rely on his actual performance to verify jinyong words (that he is 98% of a Great). And his track record looked TERRIBLE:

    LOCH GJ was constantly dominated by OYF/HYS through the entire series. OYF absolutely destroyed GJ in a single blow that he had to recuperate for 7 days 7 nights. Even 'late-story' Mongol Desert GJ, OYF had no trouble capturing him and toying around with him for practice. Browsing some excerpts, even as late as Chapter 38 (the 3rd last chapter):

    拆了三十余招,郭靖究竟功力不及,被欧阳锋抢上半步,右掌抹到了胁下。郭靖难以闪避,只得停手 待毙,哪知欧 阳锋竟不发劲,笑道:“今日到此为止,你练几招真经上的功夫,明日再跟你打过。

    GJ could only take 30+ exchange with OYF. Basically, GJ pose little threat to OYF.

    On the other hand, 'mid-story' GJ was able to hold up surprisingly well against QQR. He exchanged palms with QQR as early as at Beggar meet.

    裘千仞一招接过,已试出郭靖的真实功夫,以内力修为而论,自己尚胜他半筹.
    “After the exchange, QQR already know GJ skill LV. In terms of internal, he’s still ahead by half a tier.”

    Jinyong even say that QQR internal is only half a tier higher than GJ. (Another evidence that his words can't be trusted... or can it? )

    And then, at Mt Iron Palm, this happened:

    两人掌力相交,砰砰两声,各自退出三步。只不过裘千仞稳稳站住,郭靖却身子连晃了两下,这一掌 既交,双方可 说高下已判,昨晚在君山借着丐帮弟子的身子较劲,两人似乎打成了平手,然而那是由于郭靖出手中 带着天罡北斗 阵的巧劲,此刻硬碰硬的比拚,毕竟还是输了一筹。

    “The 2 palms clashed, ‘pak! pak!’ and both took 3 steps backwards. However, QQR stood firmly while GJ body shooked twice.”

    Really?! I can't help but feel the description seems to suggest that GJ is only 1 tier behind QQR, which is obviously not the case if he's 98% of a Great. If it was OYF, it would have been “OYF stood firmly while GJ flew back 10 steps”.

    And the best part, not long after, GJ was able to scare off (defeat?) QQR by teaming up with Huang Rong and Ying Gu. I cannot imagine a greater discrepancy between characters of supposedly same LV.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 03-23-19 at 10:40 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Jin Yong explicitly characterized Iron Palm Union Chief Kau Cheen Yan's martial arts as 98% that of an LOCH Great, but judging from KCY's performances against Gwok Jing and other opponents (compared to performances by the Greats), he doesn't seem to be quite at that level. By my estimation, Kau Cheen Yan is only 85% of a Great at best, and might even be as low as 80% of a Great.
    Ken, able to provide the source of this 98%?
    If so, why was QQR easily defeated by Yideng in the latest LOCH series?

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    This is a good place to continue discussion on QQR, since the other thread was "kidnapped" by ZWJ...

    Regardless of whether you think ZWJ underperformed or not, he was at least supported by his Great LV skillset. That makes it possible to rate him at ROCH Great at worst(for people who do think so), to as good as GJ/YG.

    For QQR, he has no such imba skillset to fall back on. Hence, we can only rely on his actual performance to verify jinyong words (that he is 98% of a Great). And his track record looked TERRIBLE:

    LOCH GJ was constantly dominated by OYF/HYS through the entire series. OYF absolutely destroyed GJ in a single blow that he had to recuperate for 7 days 7 nights. Even 'late-story' Mongol Desert GJ, OYF had no trouble capturing him and toying around with him for practice. Browsing some excerpts, even as late as Chapter 38 (the 3rd last chapter):

    拆了三十余招,郭靖究竟功力不及,被欧阳锋抢上半步,右掌抹到了胁下。郭靖难以闪避,只得停手 待毙,哪知欧 阳锋竟不发劲,笑道:“今日到此为止,你练几招真经上的功夫,明日再跟你打过。

    GJ could only take 30+ exchange with OYF. Basically, GJ pose little threat to OYF.

    On the other hand, 'mid-story' GJ was able to hold up surprisingly well against QQR. He exchanged palms with QQR as early as at Beggar meet.

    裘千仞一招接过,已试出郭靖的真实功夫,以内力修为而论,自己尚胜他半筹.
    “After the exchange, QQR already know GJ skill LV. In terms of internal, he’s still ahead by half a tier.”

    Jinyong even say that QQR internal is only half a tier higher than GJ. (Another evidence that his words can't be trusted... or can it? )

    And then, at Mt Iron Palm, this happened:

    两人掌力相交,砰砰两声,各自退出三步。只不过裘千仞稳稳站住,郭靖却身子连晃了两下,这一掌 既交,双方可 说高下已判,昨晚在君山借着丐帮弟子的身子较劲,两人似乎打成了平手,然而那是由于郭靖出手中 带着天罡北斗 阵的巧劲,此刻硬碰硬的比拚,毕竟还是输了一筹。

    “The 2 palms clashed, ‘pak! pak!’ and both took 3 steps backwards. However, QQR stood firmly while GJ body shooked twice.”

    Really?! I can't help but feel the description seems to suggest that GJ is only 1 tier behind QQR, which is obviously not the case if he's 98% of a Great. If it was OYF, it would have been “OYF stood firmly while GJ flew back 10 steps”.

    And the best part, not long after, GJ was able to scare off (defeat?) QQR by teaming up with Huang Rong and Ying Gu. I cannot imagine a greater discrepancy between characters of supposedly same LV.
    Well mau I ask Yu how can Wuji (Lv 68 - at Brightness Peak battle) rank higher than YTZ (Lv 60 - at Shaolin battle) since we all know YTZ can "defeat" DCQ/Xuanci even give XF "hard time" while Wuji have "trouble" with someone like Mijue/Kongsheng though he can win..
    At that time
    Wuji better technique (Qian Kun) less internal
    YTZ monsterous internal weak technique
    But judging they perform how can Wuji rank "higher" than YTZ

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    This should be in the ranking chart thread... but... early ZWJ improved a lot after every battle.

    After mastering 9YSG he should be at LV60, same as YTZ, which is in the chart (YJJ = 9YSG). Basically at this point, both of them have Great+ Internal and very bad/non existent fighting skill.

    QKDNY is a great defensive skill, enabled Wuji to quickly see the 'flaws' in his opponents skills and even mimic them. At this point he should already be ahead of YTZ, but he still lacked combat experience and actual external techniques. Then came the Bright Peak series of battle which gained him a lot of it.

    At the end of Bright Peak battle (I will update this), LV68 seems reasonable - attained Great LV, far ahead of everyone in current wulin, but still slightly behind LOCH Greats.

    He improved greatly again after mastering Taiji sword/fists, and imo that's when he could finally compete on the LV of Condor Trilogy Greats.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 03-23-19 at 07:43 PM.

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