Is it possible that Yideng is actually weaker than the other Greats?

[Ken Cheng]

> I would argue that Yideng might actually be closer to QQR LV rather than the 3 other Greats.

I think this is the biggest thing I have an issue with. That's already making a few mental jumps to think QQR is significantly below the Greats in the first place. They're all extremely close. I wouldn't be surprised if the gap between QQR and YD is smaller than the gap between any individual Great. (How likely is every Great *exactly* at parity?)

So it could be true that YD is closer to QQR than the other greats but I think it's missing the point that they're all pretty darn close. E.g. life or death match may be half a stance of victory.

You can explain away YG vs * (in terms of number of stances/etc) by just assuming YG is just superior to *all* the Greats in 1v1 combat after he attains the HIS. (In terms of storytelling, it makes sense to me. YG discovers ultra elite MA by legendary figure *only* to be better than QQR/YD/GWM but conveniently still worse than GJ/ZBT/HYS/etc* using that same ultra elite MA?

It got watered down a bit because he's "merely" Yeung Gor and not Dook Goo Kau Bai.

It did get him to Greats level faster than anyone else had previously gotten there, though.

[a_tumiwa]

> I would argue that Yideng might actually be closer to QQR LV rather than the 3 other Greats.

I think this is the biggest thing I have an issue with. That's already making a few mental jumps to think QQR is significantly below the Greats in the first place. They're all extremely close. I wouldn't be surprised if the gap between QQR and YD is smaller than the gap between any individual Great. (How likely is every Great *exactly* at parity?)

So it could be true that YD is closer to QQR than the other greats but I think it's missing the point that they're all pretty darn close. E.g. life or death match may be half a stance of victory.

You can explain away YG vs * (in terms of number of stances/etc) by just assuming YG is just superior to *all* the Greats in 1v1 combat after he attains the HIS. (In terms of storytelling, it makes sense to me. YG discovers ultra elite MA by legendary figure *only* to be better than QQR/YD/GWM but conveniently still worse than GJ/ZBT/HYS/etc* using that same ultra elite MA?

wow, Yang Guo's fans would hate this opinion, luckily i am not YG's fans

[Western Eccentric]

wow, Yang Guo's fans would hate this opinion, luckily i am not YG's fans

Pre 16 year YES
Post 16 year NO
☺️☺️☺️☺️

[WuxiaMaster]

$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png') Originally Posted by CancerLuna $this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png')
> I would argue that Yideng might actually be closer to QQR LV rather than the 3 other Greats.

I think this is the biggest thing I have an issue with. That's already making a few mental jumps to think QQR is significantly below the Greats in the first place. They're all extremely close. I wouldn't be surprised if the gap between QQR and YD is smaller than the gap between any individual Great. (How likely is every Great *exactly* at parity?)

So it could be true that YD is closer to QQR than the other greats but I think it's missing the point that they're all pretty darn close. E.g. life or death match may be half a stance of victory.

You can explain away YG vs * (in terms of number of stances/etc) by just assuming YG is just superior to *all* the Greats in 1v1 combat after he attains the HIS. (In terms of storytelling, it makes sense to me. YG discovers ultra elite MA by legendary figure *only* to be better than QQR/YD/GWM but conveniently still worse than GJ/ZBT/HYS/etc* using that same ultra elite MA?

The problem is, judging from QQR performances (in LOCH), he really isn't worthy of being "extremely close" (by that I mean 1-2% difference) to a Great. He might be in ROCH, but we see zero evidence of that in LOCH.

QQR and Pre-16 GWM are both the "underperforming Great" of LOCH and ROCH respectively, despite what the narrator says.

Of course, HIS YG at that point could be better than all Greats (QQR, GWM, 4 Greats). Or, he could just be better than QQR/GWM only. It's hard to know.

[CancerLuna]

> The problem is, judging from QQR performances (in LOCH), he really isn't worthy of being "extremely close" (by that I mean 1-2% difference) to a Great. He might be in ROCH, but we see zero evidence of that in LOCH.

I think my main problem with this assessment is that we don't give QQR/GWM the benefit of the doubt (even though the author does, several, several times) in the same way we give the benefit of the doubt to ZWJ/Z3F. ZWJ constantly underperformed in his own novel despite being 3X better than the next strongest tier. At the end, we still rate him at (or even better *mindboggling imo*) than the older greats when *all* of his choke events would put him below QQR.

Then we have QQR getting jobbed by, lets see... (GJ, YG, GWM). (I forget if there's more.)
GJ - Protagonist, YG - Protagonist, GWM - Main Antagonist

Sure, if ZWJ choked against anyone on those 3^'s level, I'd give him a pass too..

> Of course, HIS YG at that point could be better than all Greats (QQR, GWM, 4 Greats). Or, he could just be better than QQR/GWM only. It's hard to know.

It definitely is impossible to know one way or the other, but I'd think storytelling-wise, my interpretation/assumption is that once YG attained HIS, he had become the #1 fighter at the time.

> It got watered down a bit because he's "merely" Yeung Gor and not Dook Goo Kau Bai.

I agree. Being 'merely' one of the most talented protagonists in JY canon really can't hold a candle to THE legendary figure in JY canon.