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Thread: Would XLN be considered at Great

  1. #1
    Member Silverhawk's Avatar
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    Default Would XLN be considered at Great

    I know HR proposed XLN as one of the greats at the end of ROC. But in terms of skills would she make it as a great?

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    Member MrWErD's Avatar
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    I think she's close. Pre-timeskip, she could already solo Jinlun Fawang plus company, but the years she had spent in isolation is the "x-factor". During that period, could her powers have developed at a pace that could keep up with the likes of Yang Guo and the other Greats?

    I would say no. I'm a firm believer in that to be the best, you have to mingle with the best. Xiao Longnu herself is a perfect example. It was in a desperate battle against Jinlun Fawang that she and Yang Guo realized that their Ancient sect swordplay was meant to be paired with Quanzhen Sect martial arts, which allowed them to beat an opponent many times their superior. Later, she only exchanged pointers with one Great, but after that, she could suddenly fight Jinlun Fawang alone, which she couldn't do so previously. There may be other examples, but there are the ones that are most prominent for me.

    The world is a large place. A man traveling across the countryside, committing heroics and good deeds tends to have to meet and fight a lot of people. The same can be said for the man overseering the defense of a city against a Mongolian invasion for sixteen years. Even our Yideng, while avoiding people, had Qui Qianren as a companion. Xiao Longnu, meanwhile, had no one. On her own, I don't think she would get very far up the Great hierarchy. Don't get me wrong, she's still very strong, but just not quite as strong as the actual Greats.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Not quite. Lacks the requisite inner power and effectiveness diminishes GREATLY without weapons in hand. The Greats all had vast inner power and were not weapons-dependent to demonstrate their superiority.

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    I think it was explicitly stated that in the 16 years of separation, XLN had maintained her skills but not improved on them.. So she was most likely not Great-level at the end of ROCH. Though that statement was in the comic adaptation I read, not the actual novel.

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    Inner energy wise she can't be considered a great but speed and lightness skill wise she should be the fastest; someone on this forum once said she is even faster than dfbb of SPW ?

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    Junior Member Chilian Xianzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malevolent View Post
    Inner energy wise she can't be considered a great but speed and lightness skill wise she should be the fastest; someone on this forum once said she is even faster than dfbb of SPW ?
    There is no way you can compare SPW pugilists and Condor Heroes pugilists. LHC would not even be able to defeat LMC in a one on one fight. SPW focuses more on romance and politics, and very little on martial arts. SPW was never my favorite JY novels in the first place.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Not quite. Lacks the requisite inner power and effectiveness diminishes GREATLY without weapons in hand. The Greats all had vast inner power and were not weapons-dependent to demonstrate their superiority.
    That's partly because all of them had at least some form of palm or finger skills which they could use (in fact, in most cases they were most effective unarmed). It's not like they've lost their main weapon and suddenly had to rely on Founder's Fist backed up with their neigong. However, I agree that XLN didn't quite have the battle experience that most of the other greats had, which would probably work against her quite significantly, although she'd have age on her side.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    I am going to play devil's advocate again. Although I agree that practical experience is very important, having the opportunity to spend 16 years developing an art also has its advantages. Don't forget Zhang Wuji spent five years studying 9 Yang and emerged as one of the most powerful fighters of his era.

    There is no telling what XLN had achieved after spending three times as much time developing her art.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    I am going to play devil's advocate again. Although I agree that practical experience is very important, having the opportunity to spend 16 years developing an art also has its advantages. Don't forget Zhang Wuji spent five years studying 9 Yang and emerged as one of the most powerful fighters of his era.

    There is no telling what XLN had achieved after spending three times as much time developing her art.
    Except she didn't. She spent her time recovering from her injuries, stitching messages on the backs of bees, and being Little Dragon Girl. She did absolutely NOTHING martial arts-related for sixteen years. If anything, it's a wonder that her skills didn't deteriorate from lack of use.

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    Junior Member Eastern Heretic's Avatar
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    in Jin Yong universe i would consider XLN a GREAT.

    LHC would never be able to beat her in a one on one fight, he could not even beat DFBB in the first place. but then again LHC is one of the weaker martial arts character in Jin Yong universe who wins mostly with luck.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Desire. That's probably the BIGGEST reason IMHO why she should not be ranked with the "Greats'.

    She did not have the desire for it. Put Guys like Zhang Sanfeng or Yang Guo or Quyang Feng at the bottom of a valley and they would be creating some Yin Yang Divine Sutra, Heaven Smashing Palm or Hell Freezing Kick kung fu. Put XLN there and she plays with the bees for 16 years.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Desire. That's probably the BIGGEST reason IMHO why she should not be ranked with the "Greats'.

    She did not have the desire for it. Put Guys like Zhang Sanfeng or Yang Guo or Quyang Feng at the bottom of a valley and they would be creating some Yin Yang Divine Sutra, Heaven Smashing Palm or Hell Freezing Kick kung fu. Put XLN there and she plays with the bees for 16 years.
    Then again, it wasn't too long before JY became a fan of "Want something? You can't have it. Don't want something? I'll make sure you get it x 10. Bwahaha." If XLN was conceived in that period, her lack of desire would have ensured supra-Greatness.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    How good is XLN exactly? She may not be able to defeat many of the better fighters, but can she end any fight she has tired of simply by flying away? Is her qing gong at that level?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by poppies View Post
    How good is XLN exactly? She may not be able to defeat many of the better fighters, but can she end any fight she has tired of simply by flying away? Is her qing gong at that level?
    If she plays it smart, I think she can escape alive from a duel against a Great, but flat out win, she won't.

    NOTE: don't cite her performance against the Golden Wheel Monk. That was a one-off overperformance against an opponent notorious for choking against weaker fighters.

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    Member Swordsman83's Avatar
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    xiao long nv overrated much ?

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    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Isn't Huang Rong a better, more formidable martial artist than XLN? Huang Rong was definitely better than XLNs elder martial sister LMC.

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    Quote Originally Posted by goodrick View Post
    Isn't Huang Rong a better, more formidable martial artist than XLN? Huang Rong was definitely better than XLNs elder martial sister LMC.
    Read the fight at Quanzhen.

  18. #18
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Read the fight at Quanzhen.
    I think that the fight at the Chung Yeung Palace was a one-time overperformance, dependent upon specific circumstances, by Little Dragon Girl rather than an accurate reflection of her true martial arts level. She was fighting WAY above her actual level by utilizing the element of surprise to her advantage. What we saw Little Dragon Girl do at Chung Yeung Temple anticipates what we would see Chow Chi Yerk do at Shaolin a century later.

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    The context and author subtext was completely different. Both ZZR and XLN had lower inner power than their opponents, but ZZR was using a technique that wasn't even that great to begin with (Whip techniques and 9 Yin Claws), as well as taking a crash course in it. XLN on the other hand had as perfect a technique that could be imagined at that point, and used it flawlessly.

    XLN is more like Linghu Chong than a Zhou Ziruo; using superior techniques to compensate for inner power up to a certain point. ZZR just flat out uses trickery and sneak attacks.

    XLN also handily defeated Gongsun Zhi later whom Huang Rong/Li Mochou were not confident in taking down. In terms of "real martial arts" or whatever it's possible Huang Rong is better, but XLN would take it rather easily imo in an actual fight.
    Last edited by tape; 05-17-15 at 06:28 PM.

  20. #20
    Senior Member goodrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Read the fight at Quanzhen.
    Read Ken's post that he wrote right after yours.

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