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Thread: How much time between the death of WCY and the beginning of LOCH?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default How much time between the death of WCY and the beginning of LOCH?

    By the time that Yau Chui Gei met the Gwok and Yeung brothers at the beginning of LOCH, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was dead. How long had the founder of the Cheun Jen Sect been dead at that point, though? I estimate that it was at least one year, but probably no more than five years.

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    Yeeeep perhaps around 2-3 years since 1st Huashan duel occurred 5 years prior GJ birth..

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    any clue can be shared?

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    According to this passage at the beginning of LOCH:

    光宗傳到當今天子慶元皇帝手裏,他在臨安已坐了五年龍廷...

    It was the fifth year of the reign of the Qingyuan emperor (i.e. the Ningzong emperor), so LOCH started in 1199 AD. According to Wikipedia, Wang Chongyang died in 1170 AD, so there is a gap of 29 years in between.

    Of course, Jinyong took great liberties with historical facts and dates, so in the LOCH universe, who knows?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    According to this passage at the beginning of LOCH:

    光宗傳到當今天子慶元皇帝手裏,他在臨安已坐了五年龍廷...

    It was the fifth year of the reign of the Qingyuan emperor (i.e. the Ningzong emperor), so LOCH started in 1199 AD. According to Wikipedia, Wang Chongyang died in 1170 AD, so there is a gap of 29 years in between.

    Of course, Jinyong took great liberties with historical facts and dates, so in the LOCH universe, who knows?
    I know better than to try to dispute history, but it is indeed apparent that Jin Yong fudged the historical timeline for the sake of telling the story he wanted to tell (again). In my mind, the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament took place no more than five years before the beginning of LOCH. Depictions of the Greats during the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament have all of them (except for Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, who was evidently significantly older than the others) as being younger, though not especially youthful. The Greats (East Heretic Wong Yerk See, West Poison Au Yeung Fung, South Emperor Deun Chi Hing, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung) weren't teenagers or twentysomething nooBs in wulin during the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament. I reckon that even the youngest among them, whom I believe was Wong Yerk See, must have been at least thirty at the time. That works well with the timeline of LOCH. When Gwok Jing first met Wong Yerk See around eighteen years after the beginning of LOCH, Wong Yerk See appeared to be in his late forties or early fifites.

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    Hmmmmmm🥺🥺🥺🥺

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    According to this passage at the beginning of LOCH:

    光宗傳到當今天子慶元皇帝手裏,他在臨安已坐了五年龍廷...

    It was the fifth year of the reign of the Qingyuan emperor (i.e. the Ningzong emperor), so LOCH started in 1199 AD. According to Wikipedia, Wang Chongyang died in 1170 AD, so there is a gap of 29 years in between.

    Of course, Jinyong took great liberties with historical facts and dates, so in the LOCH universe, who knows?
    i just checked edition 3 (yours re ed2) and realized that passage has been removed by Jin Yong, i wonder why he removed it? to revise a wrong timeline or something?


    砰的一声,郭啸天又在桌上重重拍了一记,震倒了一只酒杯,酒水流得满桌,怒道: 不要脸,不要脸!这鸟皇帝算是哪一门子的皇帝!
      张十五道:那时候全国军民听到了这讯息,无不愤慨之极。淮水以北的百姓眼见河山恢复无望,更是伤心泣 血。高宗见自己的宝座从此坐得稳若泰山,便道是秦桧的大功。秦桧本来已封到鲁国公,这时再加封太师,荣宠无 比,权势薰天。高宗传孝宗,孝宗传光宗,金人占定了我大半边江山。光宗传到当今天子庆元皇帝手里,用的是这 位韩邝胄韩宰相,今后的日子怎样?嘿嘿,难说,难说!说着连连摇头。
      郭啸天道:甚么难说?这里是乡下地方,尽说无妨,又不比临安府城里,怕给人听了去惹祸。韩侘胄这贼宰 相,哪一个不说他是大大的奸臣?说到祸国殃民的本事,跟秦桧是拜把子的兄弟。

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tumiwa View Post
    i just checked edition 3 (yours re ed2) and realized that passage has been removed by Jin Yong, i wonder why he removed it? to revise a wrong timeline or something?
    Perhaps Jin Yong realized that the timelline discrepancy was too disparate to be sustainable.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Perhaps Jin Yong realized that the timelline discrepancy was too disparate to be sustainable.
    There is no way of reconciling the events of LOCH with real history - the LOCH timeline is heavily compressed to have the major events of the time happen in a reasonable timeframe within GJ's lifetime, whereas in reality it took much longer. For example, Temujin was attacked by his anda Jamukha in 1187, but Jamukha was finally captured in 1206. In LOCH, both events occurred around GJ's 18th birthday when he was about to leave for the Central plains, and resolved seemingly in a short period of time (a month or so?) before his 19th birthday, in time for the arranged duel with Yang Kang.

    Blurring the exact time at which LOCH took place doesn't help much to reconcile with real history - the emperor is still Ningzong, so the earliest time it could be is 1194 AD, which is still 24 years after Wang Chongyang's death. It is also completely out of whack with the events in Mongolia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    There is no way of reconciling the events of LOCH with real history - the LOCH timeline is heavily compressed to have the major events of the time happen in a reasonable timeframe within GJ's lifetime, whereas in reality it took much longer. For example, Temujin was attacked by his anda Jamukha in 1187, but Jamukha was finally captured in 1206. In LOCH, both events occurred around GJ's 18th birthday when he was about to leave for the Central plains, and resolved seemingly in a short period of time (a month or so?) before his 19th birthday, in time for the arranged duel with Yang Kang.

    Blurring the exact time at which LOCH took place doesn't help much to reconcile with real history - the emperor is still Ningzong, so the earliest time it could be is 1194 AD, which is still 24 years after Wang Chongyang's death. It is also completely out of whack with the events in Mongolia.
    Yes, which is why when asked why I didn't use the Christian calendar for my CONDOR HEROES CHRONOLOGY timeline, I pretty much had to answer that it's not feasible due to Jin Yong's severe fudging of dates.

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