Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 25

Thread: 9 Yum Jen Ging - why *two* volumes?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default 9 Yum Jen Ging - why *two* volumes?

    Yeah, it's 9 Yum Jen Ging Obsession Week. I ought to go have a talk with West Poison Au Yeung Fung.

    Anyway, I always wondered why the 9 Yum Jen Ging was separated into two volumes. Neither volume (at least based on the props used in adaptations) seemed particularly...uh, voluminous. Both parts could have easily fit into a single codex. Why two volumes, then?

  2. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    163

    Default

    To make it just that much more difficult to get the entire thing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    well i now have a question, didn't guo jing, huang rong, zhou bou tong, yang guo learn both the positive n negative? i remember guo jing was made to remember both by zbt as well as huang rong being smart rewrote the book, but how come they don't seem to use it? they only use it to gain internal energy thats what it seems. and also how come they don't have that auto protect thingy that zhang wu ji has? or when guo jing got stabbed by yang kang, how come his injury didn't heal by itself, didn't that happened with zwj?

    and how come in all the series we don't see any other variety of special moves in the 9 yjg? i think that was the only reason i like legend of condor lovers with richie ren, in there they made a technique where he was able to go into a persons soul and remember what they were doing and stuff, then in i think rotch 98 with fann wong and chris lee, i think he did auto protect when fighting golden wheel monk at heroes meet or was that some other move?

    i always wonder what made the 9yjg so powerful when all we see is the bone claw move n nothing else.also didn't xiao feng from demi god semi devil learn it as well? also didn't that dude with the mask also learn it after being poisoned alot by that evil girl? wasn't that why they got so powerful? also didn't that other monk that duan yi toke his power from learn it as well?

    i notive in the condor trilogy they mostly use internal energy when fighting, not much swordplay like in state of divinity or others.

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    well i now have a question, didn't guo jing, huang rong, zhou bou tong, yang guo learn both the positive n negative? i remember guo jing was made to remember both by zbt as well as huang rong being smart rewrote the book, but how come they don't seem to use it? they only use it to gain internal energy thats what it seems. and also how come they don't have that auto protect thingy that zhang wu ji has? or when guo jing got stabbed by yang kang, how come his injury didn't heal by itself, didn't that happened with zwj?

    and how come in all the series we don't see any other variety of special moves in the 9 yjg? i think that was the only reason i like legend of condor lovers with richie ren, in there they made a technique where he was able to go into a persons soul and remember what they were doing and stuff, then in i think rotch 98 with fann wong and chris lee, i think he did auto protect when fighting golden wheel monk at heroes meet or was that some other move?

    i always wonder what made the 9yjg so powerful when all we see is the bone claw move n nothing else.also didn't xiao feng from demi god semi devil learn it as well? also didn't that dude with the mask also learn it after being poisoned alot by that evil girl? wasn't that why they got so powerful? also didn't that other monk that duan yi toke his power from learn it as well?

    i notive in the condor trilogy they mostly use internal energy when fighting, not much swordplay like in state of divinity or others.
    The story external explanation is that 9yin contained whatever martial arts were needed in the story that the character lacked at that time, filling any gaps in their oeuvre. The story internal explanation is that 9yin contained advanced martial arts of every type, that Huang Shang invented in order to counter his enemies' many skills.

    In addition to the 9yin claws, the healing technique and the internal, there was also a formation akin to the Quanzhen Big Dipper which Guo Jing used. There was the bone-crushing palm which Mei Chaofeng and Chen Xuanfeng practiced, by which Zhang Ahsheng, one of the Jiangnan Freaks was killed. There was also the soul-altering spell which Huang Rong used to enchant Elder Peng, which Wang Chongyang prescribed to counter Lin Chaoying's swordplay, and which Yang Guo used against Da Erba. There were evasion techniques which Yang Guo used against Da Erba. There was an acupoint releasing technique which Yang Guo and Xiao Longnu used against Li Mochou, and which was part of Wang Chongyang's counter to the Ancient Tomb martial arts. There were sword techniques and internal strengthening techniques which Guo Jing used against Ouyang Feng in that abandoned house. And there was the Demon-subduing fist, which Zhou Botong and later Yang Guo used in their duel. There may be other usages of 9yin that I've forgotten.

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    wow, nice you know alot, i can't believe you remember all that, i wish they had some more like use in fight scenes graphics wise, i mean we usually see the bone claw thingy thats it, n since you reminded me the heart exploding palm technique how come yang kang doesn't use that? so was the reason yang kang was weak because he didn't have enough internal energy? also about releasing the acupunt(sp) thing why didnt xln use after au yang fong froze her?

    so how come guo jing, yang guo didn't get auto protect like zwj did? or like heal as fast as zwj did when he got stabbed by zzr?

    also sorta off topic, but how come zwj after 5 years of learning only the yang portion, got so powerful internally? i mean he was able to deflect or survive 3 hits from the nun which seem to have alot of internal energy? so does the 9yjg give you like a huge leep of internal energy as well?

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    227

    Default

    that's why ZWJ's 9yang is different from 9yin. (IMO its more powerful)

    back to the topic: he split it probably because they dealt with different matters on the same topic. it's like writing a book on sports and having different volumes for the different sports. you don't HAVE to put them in separate volumes but it wouldn't not make sense to put them in separate volumes.

  7. #7
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    well i now have a question, didn't guo jing, huang rong, zhou bou tong, yang guo learn both the positive n negative? i remember guo jing was made to remember both by zbt as well as huang rong being smart rewrote the book, but how come they don't seem to use it? they only use it to gain internal energy thats what it seems. and also how come they don't have that auto protect thingy that zhang wu ji has? or when guo jing got stabbed by yang kang, how come his injury didn't heal by itself, didn't that happened with zwj?

    and how come in all the series we don't see any other variety of special moves in the 9 yjg? i think that was the only reason i like legend of condor lovers with richie ren, in there they made a technique where he was able to go into a persons soul and remember what they were doing and stuff, then in i think rotch 98 with fann wong and chris lee, i think he did auto protect when fighting golden wheel monk at heroes meet or was that some other move?

    i always wonder what made the 9yjg so powerful when all we see is the bone claw move n nothing else.also didn't xiao feng from demi god semi devil learn it as well? also didn't that dude with the mask also learn it after being poisoned alot by that evil girl? wasn't that why they got so powerful? also didn't that other monk that duan yi toke his power from learn it as well?

    i notive in the condor trilogy they mostly use internal energy when fighting, not much swordplay like in state of divinity or others.

    I think you are mixing three distinct martial arts manual together.


    1. Yi Jin Jing (Tendon-Altering Sutra, YJJ) which mentioned in DGSD and Smiling Proud Wanderer. It's an exclusive Shaolin internal energy cultivation method. Shaolin Abbot Fang Sheng , Linghu Chong, and You Tanzhi (The masked man) are the primary practitioners of the art.

    2. Nine Yin Manual which mentioned through out LOCH and ROCH. Wang Chong Yang, Zhou Botong , Guo Jing and YG all have studied it.

    3. Nine Yang Manual which created by Shaolin monk who had a chance to read Nine Yin Manual. Zhang Wuji was able to study the full volume. Wudang, Shaolin and Emei were able to integrate some portions of it to their sects' martial arts.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    I think you are mixing three distinct martial arts manual together.


    1. Yi Jin Jing (Tendon-Altering Sutra, YJJ) which mentioned in DGSD and Smiling Proud Wanderer. It's an exclusive Shaolin internal energy cultivation method. Shaolin Abbot Fang Sheng , Linghu Chong, and You Tanzhi (The masked man) are the primary practitioners of the art.

    2. Nine Yin Manual which mentioned through out LOCH and ROCH. Wang Chong Yang, Zhou Botong , Guo Jing and YG all have studied it.

    3. Nine Yang Manual which created by Shaolin monk who had a chance to read Nine Yin Manual. Zhang Wuji was able to study the full volume. Wudang, Shaolin and Emei were able to integrate some portions of it to their sects' martial arts.
    okay i see i always thought the one from demi god semi devil/state of divinity, and condor heroes trilogy were the same so their actually different, i guess the dubs i watch thru me off.

    okay so huang yaoshi only had the 9 yin manual he toke from chou bou tong? so in lotch it was broken also into 2 manuels, one that chou bou tong had and one that mei chou fong toke?

    and the 9 yang manual only shaolin had this and zhang san feng learned a portion of this as well as emei n shaolin, then zhang wu ji learned the full since the original copy was hidden in the monkey.

    all of jin yong novel/series adapation seem to have like same sacred scrolls ability i guess thats why it confused me.

    so huang shang was offical who created the jiu yin zhen jin, then who created jiu yang zhen jin? it wasn't him right, its like u said it was only found in shaolin, so its completey different form the scroll xiao feng etc learned.

    sorta off topic, so is smiling proud wanderer/state of divinity is somewhat in same story line as condor heroes and demi god? but what i notice at the battle at shaolin in heaven sword, theres 2 guys from hu shan sect who fought zhang wu ji and lost, i always thought they were the master of hu shan that stole the lotus scroll from shaolin that dong fan bu bai learned, but are they?


  9. #9
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mido-Ban View Post
    okay i see i always thought the one from demi god semi devil/state of divinity, and condor heroes trilogy were the same so their actually different, i guess the dubs i watch thru me off.

    okay so huang yaoshi only had the 9 yin manual he toke from chou bou tong? so in lotch it was broken also into 2 manuels, one that chou bou tong had and one that mei chou fong toke?

    and the 9 yang manual only shaolin had this and zhang san feng learned a portion of this as well as emei n shaolin, then zhang wu ji learned the full since the original copy was hidden in the monkey.

    all of jin yong novel/series adapation seem to have like same sacred scrolls ability i guess thats why it confused me.

    so huang shang was offical who created the jiu yin zhen jin, then who created jiu yang zhen jin? it wasn't him right, its like u said it was only found in shaolin, so its completey different form the scroll xiao feng etc learned.

    sorta off topic, so is smiling proud wanderer/state of divinity is somewhat in same story line as condor heroes and demi god? but what i notice at the battle at shaolin in heaven sword, theres 2 guys from hu shan sect who fought zhang wu ji and lost, i always thought they were the master of hu shan that stole the lotus scroll from shaolin that dong fan bu bai learned, but are they?
    Yes, now you're making senses.

    OK let me try to explain more clearly.

    Nine Yin Manual

    Huang Shang created first volume of the book by studying Taoist philosophy and martial arts classics by Emperor's order. By doing so he became formidable martial artist. Emperor ordered to him to destroy Ming Cult, which he fought and killed almost all top martial artist of the Ming Cult by one-on-one duel until he exhausted and reteated. Ming Cult sent remaining martial artists to kill Huang Shang's family. After the incident Huang Shang secluded himself. For four decades, he studied Ming Cult's martial arts and developed martial arts system to defeat them all which became the second volume.

    After first Hua Shan duel. Wang Chong Yang get hold onto the complete Nine Yin manual. He used it to defeat Ancient Tomb's martial arts and left key portion of it in the tomb. Later Yang Guo would learn it.

    After Wang Chong Yang died Zhou Bo Tong lost second volume of it to Huang Yao Shi. Who realized without first volume second one is harmful to study. Yet, his two students, Chen Xuan Feng and Mei Chao Feng, stole it and studied.

    After much happenings two volumes ultimately fall into Zhou Bo Tong's hand again and in order to enjoy himself, he taught it to Guo Jing, irresistibly learning himself as well.

    Nine Yang Manual

    Wang Chong Yang lost a drinking contest with a Shaolin monk and let him read the full Nine Yin Manual who thought that it's very Yin in nature. So he decided to create Yang version of it. Later Yin Kexi and Xiaoxiangzi (mongolian mercenaries along side with Golden Wheel Monk) stole it and hid inside monkey's belly.

    Also a Shaolin Librarian Jue Yuan studied it as a health improving exercise. He let his disciple Zhang Junbao too learn it.

    Before Jue Yuan died, he recited full Nine Yang Manual in front of three people. Zhang Junbao who was already studying it, Shaolin monk Wuse, and founder of Emei sect Guo Xiang. Wuse and Guo Xiang were able to comprehend 30% of the manual while Zhang Junbao was able to learn 50 or 60 percent of it due to his previous studies.


    Smiling Proud Wanderer is the same canonical work as Condor Trilogy and DGSD.

    About the Hua Shan masters, I don't think it was them who stole the sutra from Shaolin. Time frame doesn't make any sense if we assume so.

    Last edited by odbayarb2000; 09-23-09 at 08:34 PM.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Just to clarify, Zhang Sanfeng did not learned the most of it, I think if anything Wuse learned the most followed by Guo Xiang. I believe the explanation given was that he didn't have any martial arts background, so he didn't grasp a lot of the text at the time and of course he couldn't just memorize it all and go back to it once he knew. It's definitely easier for people to remember something in which they understand.

    However Zhang Sanfeng was said to have the most pure version of the three, because he was not influenced by other philosophies/arts.

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    1,120

    Default

    okay but still confusing, so golden wheel monk n other mongolians tried stealing the scroll during rotch or something? is this in novel only? and when did golden wheel monk try to steal it? also i remember reading somewhere that in rotch, zhang quan bo is suppose to meet yang guo etc at hua shan mountain at the end and they helped him stop the guy who stole the scroll but before he hid it in the monkey? how come in rotch or other versions never shown this?

    i just read from this site that the 9 yin also had techniques to fight other sects martial arts such as shaolin, the duan family, etc? heres the link
    http://condorheroes.silverthreads.net/yinyang
    so is this true?

  12. #12
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tape View Post
    Just to clarify, Zhang Sanfeng did not learned the most of it, I think if anything Wuse learned the most followed by Guo Xiang. I believe the explanation given was that he didn't have any martial arts background, so he didn't grasp a lot of the text at the time and of course he couldn't just memorize it all and go back to it once he knew. It's definitely easier for people to remember something in which they understand.

    However Zhang Sanfeng was said to have the most pure version of the three, because he was not influenced by other philosophies/arts.

    Wuse didn't study martial arts?

    Wuse was able to pursue Jue Yuan and hid on the tree while Jue Yuan was reciting Nine Yang Manual. I assume he knew martial arts. Also I think he is the one who fought with Guo Xiang.

    Is it third edition change?
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Posts
    2,109

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    Wuse didn't study martial arts?

    Wuse was able to pursue Jue Yuan and hid on the tree while Jue Yuan was reciting Nine Yang Manual. I assume he knew martial arts. Also I think he is the one who fought with Guo Xiang.

    Is it third edition change?
    He was talking about Zhang Sanfeng, not Wuse. Wuse was the head of the martial arts hall of Shaolin, and in addition to fighting Guo Xiang in the beginning of HSDS, was also one of the 700 experts who raided the Nanyang supply camp with Yang Guo as one of the 3 presents for Guo Xiang's 16th birthday.

    In any case, IIRC Zhang Junbao already had a significant internal foundation during the encounter on Huashan, even if he lacked external techniques, and therefore must have had some level of 9 yang training already.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    3,580

    Default

    Oh you misunderstood me. Wuse definitely studied martial arts, which is why he learned the most. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    Zhang Sanfeng learned the purest, but the least because he didn't study martial arts. Wuse learned the most, but influenced by his own martial arts, so it wasn't as pure.

    Edit: What he said. Same time post heh.

  15. #15
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Posts
    563

    Default

    Hmm, the posts seem to be running further away from the thread title.
    Anyway, back to the topic, I had in fact wonder why it's just two volumes. Ain't it supposed to contain all the martial arts that Huang Shang wanted to counter? One of the volumes can't be just 9 Yin bone claw huh?

  16. #16
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Oh, Sorry. I see. I mistook you, Tape.

    Mido-Ban, I mentioned Golden Wheel Monk's name in order to give some clue who Yin Kexi and Xiaoxiangzi were.

    Golden Wheel Monk never tried to steal Nine Yang.

    Yin Kexi and Xiaoxiangzi are the ones who stole the Nine Yang Manual. They escaped to Hua Shan pursued by Jue Yuan and Zhang Junbao(Later Zhang Sang Feng)

    All ended up meeting with YG, GJ, old Greats and everyone else. YG helped Jue Yuan and Zhang Junbao to retrieve manual from Yin Kexi and Xiaoxiangzi but they had already hid the book inside monkey's belly. So Jue Yuan wasn't able to find it.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Posts
    1,530

    Default

    The monk who won the drinking contest must have had a memory to rival Huang Rong's mother; if not exceed it.

  18. #18
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Wang Chong Yang always have been regarded as upright and chivalrous character. But having drinking contest with a monk ?

    Wasn't drinking prohibited in Quanzen Sect ?

    Wait, Shaolin monk drinking ? Wasn't drinking taboo in Shaolin?

    One being Quanzen patriarch other being Shaolin monk, drinking together poeple's back. Something smelly goes here.
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


  19. #19
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    24,367

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000 View Post
    Wang Chong Yang always have been regarded as upright and chivalrous character. But having drinking contest with a monk ?

    Wasn't drinking prohibited in Quanzen Sect ?
    I don't think so. Shortly after Yau Chui Gei met Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen, the Eternal Springs Taoist drank his fill with his two new buddies.

    I think Taoists believe in all things in moderation: drinking is not forbidden, but drinking to piss-rotten drunk (a la Kiu Fung) is discouraged.

  20. #20
    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Hidden Mountains
    Posts
    649

    Default

    Okay back to the topic.

    Two volumes of the Nine Yin Manual was written different time period. First volume is a canonical work of Taoist philosophy and martial art classic focusing on Qi training, healing techniques and other stuffs. Second volume contains martial arts from Ming Cult and its counter techniques created by Huang Shang.

    So there are two volumes. Am I answering your question?
    "Big Hero Linghu kills frogs with the Dugu Nine Swords!”


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-19-15, 01:59 PM
  2. 9 Yum Jen Ging - orthodox or unorthodox?
    By Ken Cheng in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-22-09, 11:39 AM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-03-07, 05:49 AM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 01-01-07, 01:15 PM
  5. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 08-26-04, 01:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •