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Thread: Yeung Gor miscalculated Dook Goo Kau Bai's time period by around fifty years.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Yeung Gor miscalculated Dook Goo Kau Bai's time period by around fifty years.

    When the Divine Condor brought Yeung Gor to Dook Goo Kau Bai's Tomb of Swords near Seung Yeung Fortress, Yeung Gor estimated that Dook Goo Kau Bai must have lived around seventy years before his own time after examining the artifacts that DGKB left behind.

    Yeung Gor was not a historian or an archaeologist, so he was just giving his best guess based on his observations, but I think he was about fifty years off.

    At the time that Yeung Gor visited the Tomb of Swords, around forty years had passed since the beginning of LOCH (e.g. the birth of Gwok Jing). If you add another thirty years (going backward) to that, we're in the era when Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was young and doing his thing in wulin.

    Remember, however, that none of the elder Greats had ever encountered or even heard of Dook Goo Kau Bai, while Dook Goo Kau Bai was said to have gained his reputation by having dueled and defeated all the martial arts experts of the time...which did *not* include Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, Ancient Tomb Sect Founder Lam Chiu Ying, and the other Greats. In fact, by the time Wong Chung Yeung and the other Greats emerged in wulin, Dook Goo Kau Bai was unknown and forgotten. Since Wong Chung Yeung and the Greats first became renowned during the ten to twenty years before LOCH began, then Dook Goo Kau Bai's time of dominance must have been closer to the final years of the Northern Sung Dynasty...e.g. the same time period of Wong Seung (the creator of the 9 Yum Jen Ging, whom some have theorized was one of the martial arts experts whom DGKB defeated), which is around seventy to eighty years before the beginning of LOCH and therefore, at least 110-120 years before Yeung Gor visited the Tomb of Swords.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    When the Divine Condor brought Yeung Gor to Dook Goo Kau Bai's Tomb of Swords near Seung Yeung Fortress, Yeung Gor estimated that Dook Goo Kau Bai must have lived around seventy years before his own time after examining the artifacts that DGKB left behind.

    Yeung Gor was not a historian or an archaeologist, so he was just giving his best guess based on his observations, but I think he was about fifty years off.

    At the time that Yeung Gor visited the Tomb of Swords, around forty years had passed since the beginning of LOCH (e.g. the birth of Gwok Jing). If you add another thirty years (going backward) to that, we're in the era when Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung was young and doing his thing in wulin.

    Remember, however, that none of the elder Greats had ever encountered or even heard of Dook Goo Kau Bai, while Dook Goo Kau Bai was said to have gained his reputation by having dueled and defeated all the martial arts experts of the time...which did *not* include Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, Ancient Tomb Sect Founder Lam Chiu Ying, and the other Greats. In fact, by the time Wong Chung Yeung and the other Greats emerged in wulin, Dook Goo Kau Bai was unknown and forgotten. Since Wong Chung Yeung and the Greats first became renowned during the ten to twenty years before LOCH began, then Dook Goo Kau Bai's time of dominance must have been closer to the final years of the Northern Sung Dynasty...e.g. the same time period of Wong Seung (the creator of the 9 Yum Jen Ging, whom some have theorized was one of the martial arts experts whom DGKB defeated), which is around seventy to eighty years before the beginning of LOCH and therefore, at least 110-120 years before Yeung Gor visited the Tomb of Swords.
    Yes but you go back before WCY, there was HS the writer of 9 Yin and the young hero Xu Zhu taught. And before that, you get Xu Zhu, Duan Yu, before that, Xiao Feng, before that Murong Bo and Xiaoyao Pai....

    I tell you man, my mad Murong Fu theory makes the most logic.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I tell you man, my mad Murong Fu theory makes the most logic.
    There's one problem with that theory, and it's a pretty big one: Mo Yung F'uk never demonstrated nearly the level of ability necessary to even *fake* being as good as Dook Goo Kau Bai is believed to be. We're talking about a guy whom six of combined was inadequate to match Kiu Fung.

    The only thing going for Mo Yung F'uk being Dook Goo Kau Bai is that both were of Xianbei heritage.

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    is there any possibility that the young WCY (not the old one who was the greatest in his era) also one of the victim beaten by Dugu Qiubai ?
    i mean that maybe WCY (at least) had heard the name of DGQB, but the novel just never mentioned it, even in the Qing era (the deer and the cauldron) , someone at shaolin had heard the name of Dugu Qiubai , moreover people from Song dynasty

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tumiwa View Post
    is there any possibility that the young WCY (not the old one who was the greatest in his era) also one of the victim beaten by Dugu Qiubai ?
    While it's not impossible that Wong Chung Yeung was already living at the time that Dook Goo Kau Bai dominated wulin, WCY was likely far too young to be partaking in wulin adventures, especially dueling with elites. I think DGKB likely made his mark on wulin when WCY was a young child.

    Though you wonder how, growing up, WCY never heard any stories about DGKB.

    i mean that maybe WCY (at least) had heard the name of DGQB, but the novel just never mentioned it,
    That is possible.

    even in the Qing era (the deer and the cauldron) , someone at shaolin had heard the name of Dugu Qiubai , moreover people from Song dynasty
    Perhaps because his acolytes in spirit - Yeung Gor, Fung Ching Yeung, and Ling Wu Chung - sang his praises.

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    I still think my theory that DGKN was a group of swordsman makes more sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    There's one problem with that theory, and it's a pretty big one: Mo Yung F'uk never demonstrated nearly the level of ability necessary to even *fake* being as good as Dook Goo Kau Bai is believed to be. We're talking about a guy whom six of combined was inadequate to match Kiu Fung.

    The only thing going for Mo Yung F'uk being Dook Goo Kau Bai is that both were of Xianbei heritage.
    He went mad ya know. He was still a young man of about 30 at DGSD's end. And he had that wuxia compendium of WYY with him.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    He went mad ya know. He was still a young man of about 30 at DGSD's end. And he had that wuxia compendium of WYY with him.
    I must confess that the idea that this mythical wulin genius whom Yeung Gor, Fung Ching Yeung, and Ling Wu Chung worshiped might have, in fact, been a pathetic, raving madman, is amusing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Remember, however, that none of the elder Greats had ever encountered or even heard of Dook Goo Kau Bai, while Dook Goo Kau Bai was said to have gained his reputation by having dueled and defeated all the martial arts experts of the time...which did *not* include Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, Ancient Tomb Sect Founder Lam Chiu Ying, and the other Greats.
    None of this is substantiated by the novel - YG merely thought that none of his elders had ever mentioned the name to him, not that they did not know of him. Given that DGQB did not appear to have done anything significant other than going around defeating people (as far as we know), there would be no reason for the elders in the present to mention someone in the distant past unprompted. He had never asked 'By the way, have you heard of a guy called DGQB?' to HYS, YD or ZBT (who were old enough to possibly know of him), nor did anyone ask about the origin of his suddenly improved skills. And he certainly could not ask Wang Chongyang, who died before his father was born!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    None of this is substantiated by the novel - YG merely thought that none of his elders had ever mentioned the name to him, not that they did not know of him. Given that DGQB did not appear to have done anything significant other than going around defeating people (as far as we know), there would be no reason for the elders in the present to mention someone in the distant past unprompted. He had never asked 'By the way, have you heard of a guy called DGQB?' to HYS, YD or ZBT (who were old enough to possibly know of him), nor did anyone ask about the origin of his suddenly improved skills. And he certainly could not ask Wang Chongyang, who died before his father was born!
    But none of this contradicts the basic idea that Dook Goo Kau Bai was a figure from the past even for someone of Wong Chung Yeung's generation. Had Dook Goo Kau Bai been a contemporary of Wong Chung Yeung and the Greats, DGKB would likely have sought them out, challenged them, and (assuming his abilities were true to his reputation) defeated them. No such encounter was ever documented, however, so it is a safe assumption that DGKB predated the Greats by at least one generation, and if they knew of him, it was as a historical figure rather than a peer/contemporary.

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    JY was cagey about how old the surviving Greats actually were, but they were generally described as 'middle-aged' when GJ first encountered them in LOCH, so 70 years back from ROCH they were either not born yet or were children, so naturally DGQB would not seek them out.

    Wang Chongyang would probably be an adult at that time, but the wuxia WCY's youth (or that of any of the greats for that matter) is a mystery - pretty much nothing is known. Maybe DGQB did defeat him (WCY was never said to be undefeated in his lifetime, after all, and had at least one known peer in LCY). Or maybe his martial arts simply were not advanced enough at the time for DGQB to deign to challenge him - his super-orthodox style of martial arts was said to progress in a slow-and-steady manner (according to ROCH, the practitioner would be easily thrashed by more unorthodox styles such as that of the White Camel mountain at first, but would gradually catch up after a decade or so). It would be ironic (and deceptive) if the progenitor of the style actually achieved his power at a young age using other unconventional means instead!

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    In my mental canon, Dook Goo Kau Bai reigned over wulin during the waning years of the Northern Sung Dynasty, whereas Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung did not emerge in wulin until some time after the execution of Ngok Fei.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I tell you man, my mad Murong Fu theory makes the most logic.
    if Murong Fu has a chance to be Dugu Qiubai, then Duan Yu too
    in third edition roch or loch (forget which one), Dali royal family is said also from Xianbei , and the style of 6 meridians (using sword skill without sword) is more similar to Dugu's philosophy , not forget that DY was in his peak
    the only downside is that, DY doesnt like martial arts

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tumiwa View Post
    if Murong Fu has a chance to be Dugu Qiubai, then Duan Yu too
    in third edition roch or loch (forget which one), Dali royal family is said also from Xianbei , and the style of 6 meridians (using sword skill without sword) is more similar to Dugu's philosophy , not forget that DY was in his peak
    the only downside is that, DY doesnt like martial arts
    Xianbei (Proto Mongol) more like Turkic people while Bai people which originally from Yunnan/Dali more like Burmanese/Myanmar people so they not relate at all..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Xianbei (Proto Mongol) more like Turkic people while Bai people which originally from Yunnan/Dali more like Burmanese/Myanmar people so they not relate at all..
    then blame Jin Yong
    he is the one put that info ,
    or we can say that in Jin Yong's world, it's different than reality

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    Forget it perhaps JY just want to say both Xianbei and Bai/Dali people are non-Han people😆😆😆😆

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    just found this, i think JY is not entirely wrong from history

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duan_(surname)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duan_tribe
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duan_Sui

    between the death of Duan Sui (year 386) until the establishment of Dali Kingdom by Duan Siping (year 937), there is no record i can found, but who knows possibly that gap years , Duan clan moved to Yunnan or Gansu

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    Find it strange if not absurd for MRF and DY to be DGQB. Unless MRF's skills suddenly increase/become normal. DY has to take care of his kingdom and three consorts. Moreover, as a_t , he is never martial arts inclined.

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