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Thread: Why is YD not better than all the other greats?

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    Default Why is YD not better than all the other greats?

    WCY taught YD the "pre-heaven skill" which with his "yi yang zi", he can easily defeat OYF. Throw in the fact that he is the only one that studied the 9 yin zhen geng, how is he not considered the best of the greats?

    Also WCY's "pre-heaven skill" is the highest level of quan zhen internal cultivation where not even ZBT knows, this alone should put him on par with WCY right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    WCY taught YD the "pre-heaven skill" which with his "yi yang zi", he can easily defeat OYF. Throw in the fact that he is the only one that studied the 9 yin zhen geng, how is he not considered the best of the greats?

    Also WCY's "pre-heaven skill" is the highest level of quan zhen internal cultivation where not even ZBT knows, this alone should put him on par with WCY right?
    Only due You can "stop" Messi it's not meaning You can "stop" Barcelona (as a team) same like YD even he know how to "defeat" OYF (in theory) not mean he can beat OYF in "real fight"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Only due You can "stop" Messi it's not meaning You can "stop" Barcelona (as a team) same like YD even he know how to "defeat" OYF (in theory) not mean he can beat OYF in "real fight"..
    but what other proof is there to say YD is only equal to OYF?
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    but what other proof is there to say YD is only equal to OYF?
    In LOCH HYS once say that The 4 Greats was "equal" and can't "beat" each other this scene occurred after WCY death which mean after YD learn Pre Heaven Skill from WCY so even with Pre Heaven + YYZ YD only "equal" with Greats according HYS..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    In LOCH HYS once say that The 4 Greats was "equal" and can't "beat" each other this scene occurred after WCY death which mean after YD learn Pre Heaven Skill from WCY so even with Pre Heaven + YYZ YD only "equal" with Greats according HYS..
    i just find it weird that YD was equal to the other greats pre "pre heaven skill" and is also equal post "pre heaven skill". I thought the "pre heaven skill" was described to be be the highest level of quan zhen internal cultivation which should mean something.
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    Well perhaps after learn Pre Heaven YD not train hard and rarely fight again (since he become monk) which other Greats still train day after day and have fight each other between 1st and 2nd Huashan duel that's why in the end LOCH they still being "equal"..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well perhaps after learn Pre Heaven YD not train hard and rarely fight again (since he become monk) which other Greats still train day after day and have fight each other between 1st and 2nd Huashan duel that's why in the end LOCH they still being "equal"..
    Unless a character is the protagonist, most of the times, JY doesn't care about this char has this uber skill therefore he is stronger than this other char with no uber skill.

    Look at H7G, his inner power skill was not even mentioned once but he was never explicitly stated to have lower inner power than the other 4 greats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Unless a character is the protagonist, most of the times, JY doesn't care about this char has this uber skill therefore he is stronger than this other char with no uber skill.

    Look at H7G, his inner power skill was not even mentioned once but he was never explicitly stated to have lower inner power than the other 4 greats.
    Well when at Taohua Isle ZBT once say to GJ that H7Q is the "master" of external kungfu (don't know in newest edition) which mean his "actual" internal skill is indeed "inferior" than the other Greats..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well when at Taohua Isle ZBT once say to GJ that H7Q is the "master" of external kungfu (don't know in newest edition) which mean his "actual" internal skill is indeed "inferior" than the other Greats..
    That doesn't add up logically.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    That doesn't add up logically.
    I mean people with extremely strong external skill like H7Q/XF almost have "inferior" inner force compare with their peers since they build they strenght with physical pressure not by meditation like GJ/ZWJ did so they lack refinement dan purity..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I mean people with extremely strong external skill like H7Q/XF almost have "inferior" inner force compare with their peers since they build they strenght with physical pressure not by meditation like GJ/ZWJ did so they lack refinement dan purity..
    I find no necessary causal or even correlative link between these two concepts.

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    Well just My opinion since LuNar ask about H7Q internal kungfu..

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    Owww sorry I mean CC😆😆😆😆

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    I mean people with extremely strong external skill like H7Q/XF almost have "inferior" inner force compare with their peers since they build they strenght with physical pressure not by meditation like GJ/ZWJ did so they lack refinement dan purity..
    That is a convenient way to think of it but its not something JY expanded on in his stories.

    I mean, you can call YD master of acupoint sealing, HYS master of formations and OYF master of poisons but why should that mean because they are master of XYZ, they must have weaker internal?
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Default Yideng-an unsolvable mystery

    How good was Yideng? He should be #1 by the end of ROCH, but the truth was, he wasn't. Why?

    We know that ZBT treated martial arts seriously and was a very good gauge of one's skills. He doesn't like sucking up either. He mentioned that WCY's Xian Tian Gong would allow one to gain internal power even without training. YD learnt XTG from WCY to counter OYF. It was possible that WCY didn't impart the whole skillset to YD, but I reckon a good deal was taught to YD. But it is more possible that WCY imparted the whole skillset to YD as a gentleman's agreement.

    So with XTG, why wasn't YD a lot stronger? It could be due to YD exhausting his energy to heal HR, but 9yin allowed H7G to recover, so why not YD?

    YD also had the good fortune of learning 9yin.

    The only explanation was that he was more interested in Buddhism and doing good. But surely by becoming a more skilled fighter, one can rid the world of evil do-ers? Who knows when a more powerful OYF might pop up? If YD was stronger, he would be able to stop GWM. Plus it is impossible to chant scriptures 24 hours a day right? I mean cmon, even Shaolin monks trained in martial arts.

    It makes no sense that YD isn't a lot stronger.

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    After becoming a monk, 1 Deng focused on Buddhist cultivation and not on martial arts development. Meanwhile, the other Greats continued to actively train in anticipation of a second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament and remained active in wulin for decades.

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    What do we actually know of the pre-heaven energy?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    What do we actually know of the pre-heaven energy?

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    1. It made WCY decisively better than the other Greats; the other 4 greats were extremely proud (even to the point of arrogant) but still openly agreed that WCY was definitely better.

    2. ZBT said that it allowed one to gain inner energy even without that person training.

    3. It allowed WCY to turn his Quanzhen into the number 1 wulin sect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    After becoming a monk, 1 Deng focused on Buddhist cultivation and not on martial arts development. Meanwhile, the other Greats continued to actively train in anticipation of a second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament and remained active in wulin for decades.
    Isn't Sweeper Monk into Buddhism? Of course, his skills may be higher if he is not into Buddhism

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    It could be because for YD to guarantee a win against another Great he must use both YYZ & PHS together, otherwise he is only equal to the others. We know that if he did this it drains him of his energy for entire years, so he would only do so as a last resort.

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