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Thread: Would you criticize SF if he wanted to kill SYS after it was revealed what happened?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Would you criticize SF if he wanted to kill SYS after it was revealed what happened?

    In his quest for revenge, Siu Yeun San murdered his son Siu Fung's adoptive parents (Kiu 3 Wai and his wife) and Shaolin teacher Yeun Fu. Kiu 3 Wai and his wife and Yeun Fu were good, kind, decent people who raised Kiu Fung to be a hero, and Siu Yeun San murdered them, causing his son terrible misery.

    In light of this, would you have blamed Siu Fung if wanted to (or even in fact) kill Siu Yeun San? Biological father or not, Siu Yeun San committed reprehensible actions, and Siu Fung suffered terribly for them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    In his quest for revenge, Siu Yeun San murdered his son Siu Fung's adoptive parents (Kiu 3 Wai and his wife) and Shaolin teacher Yeun Fu. Kiu 3 Wai and his wife and Yeun Fu were good, kind, decent people who raised Kiu Fung to be a hero, and Siu Yeun San murdered them, causing his son terrible misery.

    In light of this, would you have blamed Siu Fung if wanted to (or even in fact) kill Siu Yeun San? Biological father or not, Siu Yeun San committed reprehensible actions, and Siu Fung suffered terribly for them.
    I wonder what SYS was thinking when he murders the three people who were raising his son all these years. SYS is a bad bad father who put his personal revenge above his son happiness. SF is more close to his adoptive parents than his biological father. The same can be said about Tuk Ko Kau Pai. TKKP loves his adoptive mother way way more than his biological parents. TKKP life is very sad just like SF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    In his quest for revenge, Siu Yeun San murdered his son Siu Fung's adoptive parents (Kiu 3 Wai and his wife) and Shaolin teacher Yeun Fu. Kiu 3 Wai and his wife and Yeun Fu were good, kind, decent people who raised Kiu Fung to be a hero, and Siu Yeun San murdered them, causing his son terrible misery.

    In light of this, would you have blamed Siu Fung if wanted to (or even in fact) kill Siu Yeun San? Biological father or not, Siu Yeun San committed reprehensible actions, and Siu Fung suffered terribly for them.
    I'm sure that we probably already had this discussion somewhere but Wulin is choke full of shitty dads: Xiao Yuanshan, Murong Bo, Duan Zhengchun, Xuanci, Zhou Botong, Yue Buqun. Then you have the really mediocre ones like Guo Jing, Song Yuanqiao, Ouyang Feng. Rarely do you run into a good one like Ruyang Wang.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    I'm sure that we probably already had this discussion somewhere but Wulin is choke full of shitty dads: Xiao Yuanshan, Murong Bo, Duan Zhengchun, Xuanci, Zhou Botong, Yue Buqun. Then you have the really mediocre ones like Guo Jing, Song Yuanqiao, Ouyang Feng. Rarely do you run into a good one like Ruyang Wang.
    I'm not sure if I'd hold up Prince Chaghan Temur as a model of ideal fatherhood. I mean...he wasn't horrible, but surely, we can find better examples. Siu Fung's adopted father Kiu 3 Wai comes to mind and leads the pack.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I'm not sure if I'd hold up Prince Chagan Temur as a model of ideal father hood. I mean...he wasn't horrible, but surely, we can find better examples. Siu Fung's adopted father Kiu 3 Wai comes to mind and leads the pack.
    If we are picking good fathers then I nominate Zhang Cuishan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    If we are picking good fathers then I nominate Zhang Cuishan.
    Until the moment of his death, I would support that. Committing suicide when his child was still in the hands of an enemy, though, drops him many spots down.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Until the moment of his death, I would support that. Committing suicide when his child was still in the hands of an enemy, though, drops him many spots down.
    He did beg ZHF to take care of his son, so it was not like he wanted to abandon him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    He did beg ZHF to take care of his son, so it was not like he wanted to abandon him.
    I can't agree with that. The suicide itself was traumatic for Cheung Mo Gei to experience, and moreover, Cheung Chui San cannot be deemed a responsible parent when he abdicates that duty to his already 100-year-old teacher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    In his quest for revenge, Siu Yeun San murdered his son Siu Fung's adoptive parents (Kiu 3 Wai and his wife) and Shaolin teacher Yeun Fu. Kiu 3 Wai and his wife and Yeun Fu were good, kind, decent people who raised Kiu Fung to be a hero, and Siu Yeun San murdered them, causing his son terrible misery.

    In light of this, would you have blamed Siu Fung if wanted to (or even in fact) kill Siu Yeun San? Biological father or not, Siu Yeun San committed reprehensible actions, and Siu Fung suffered terribly for them.
    There was an absolute moral obligation by wulin code for him to avenge both his foster parents and his sifu. There was also an absolute moral obligation for him not to kill his biological dad. He was fooked.

    The only way out was to use the wulin code of 'my dad's crimes are mine also' and kill himself which he did kinda mention but didn't carry out (until cap 50 for different reasons).

    I feel that JY should have wrote more about how he was already obliged to suicide for what he owes Ah Zhu and DZC but still hung on for sake of Ah Zi and avenging his foster parents/sifu first, and later how he was again obliged to suicide but hung on for the sake of Liao/Song. It was kinda implied but JY didn't seem to expand enough on it.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    There was an absolute moral obligation by wulin code for him to avenge both his foster parents and his sifu. There was also an absolute moral obligation for him not to kill his biological dad. He was fooked.
    A variation of the old HAMLET dilemma, or Hobsons' choice.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I can't agree with that. The suicide itself was traumatic for Cheung Mo Gei to experience, and moreover, Cheung Chui San cannot be deemed a responsible parent when he abdicates that duty to his already 100-year-old teacher.
    ZCS had no idea his son was watching so cannot be held responsible for the trauma. ZHF was not just some 100 year old teacher, he was the greatest martial artist of the era and had the entire resource of Wudang to call upon. You describe ZCS's suicide as him escaping from his duties, but that could not be further from the truth.

    He had his duty to his third brother and to Wudang, both of which compelled him to kill his beloved wife. Unwilling to do so he chose the only honorable path and washed away her crime with his own blood. It was precisely this sense of duty that later inspired his son to be the good man that he became.

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