Dragon Sabre @ start of HSDS

[Stance]

I've seen at the start of the series it always looks like Dragon Sabre is getting forged? I thought it was made many years ago and it was indestructable?

What are they doing to it?

[wkeej]

Perhaps, to show the strength of DS? I have np physics knowledge, to show fire can melt the metal?

[Ken Cheng]

I've seen at the start of the series it always looks like Dragon Sabre is getting forged? I thought it was made many years ago and it was indestructable?

What are they doing to it?

I was under the impression that they were testing its durability to verify that it's the genuine article and not a fake.

[a_tumiwa]

they (3 changbai peoples) already suspect there is something hidden inside, so they try to destroy it by using high temperature fire (melt it), but fail

[Stance]

they (3 changbai peoples) already suspect there is something hidden inside, so they try to destroy it by using high temperature fire (melt it), but fail

Wow they would be the only 3 in the whole wulin to be on the right track

[a_tumiwa]

Wow they would be the only 3 in the whole wulin to be on the right track

yeah , they are the closest one to right track other than Emei leaders who knows the secret clearly or yellow dressed maiden

the second closest one should be Kong Jian, he was the one who ask xie xun to find the dragon sabre,
i copy paste from wuxia translation

Xie Xun sighed again, said, “His heartbeat became slower and slower. I put my palm on his ‘Ling Ti Pressure Point’, began infusing my inner power to extend his life. He suddenly took a deep breath, and asked, ‘Is your master still not here?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Then he is not going to come.’ I said, ‘Reverend. Be assured that I will never again kill anyone to make him appear. But even if I have to walk to the end of the world, I will find him.’ He said, ‘But, you are no match for him. Unless… unless…’ At this point, his words became too soft to hear. I put my ear by his mouth, only to hear him say, ‘Unless you can find the Dragon Saber, and find… find the secret inside…’ At this moment, he stopped his breathing, and died.”

i dont know if the word translation "inside" is correct or not, i mean how can kong jian know there is something inside? or "inside" just means other meaning

[Stance]

Xie Xun sighed again, said, “His heartbeat became slower and slower. I put my palm on his ‘Ling Ti Pressure Point’, began infusing my inner power to extend his life. He suddenly took a deep breath, and asked, ‘Is your master still not here?’ I said, ‘No.’ He said, ‘Then he is not going to come.’ I said, ‘Reverend. Be assured that I will never again kill anyone to make him appear. But even if I have to walk to the end of the world, I will find him.’ He said, ‘But, you are no match for him. Unless… unless…’ At this point, his words became too soft to hear. I put my ear by his mouth, only to hear him say, ‘Unless you can find the Dragon Saber, and find… find the secret inside…’ At this moment, he stopped his breathing, and died.”

Interesting, but why dragon sabre and not heaven sword, because all the MA is inside the heaven sword and the dragon sabre only has the war tatics, which is useless to him.

[wkeej]

Interesting, but why dragon sabre and not heaven sword, because all the MA is inside the heaven sword and the dragon sabre only has the war tatics, which is useless to him.

DS - free for all to investigate.
HS - rightful owner is still Emei. Destroying it is against the whole Emei.

The latest edition noted that there is a map to Peach Blossom Island for the treasures. But is the map in HS or DS?

[Stance]

yeah , they are the closest one to right track other than Emei leaders who knows the secret clearly or yellow dressed maiden

the second closest one should be Kong Jian, he was the one who ask xie xun to find the dragon sabre,
i copy paste from wuxia translation



i dont know if the word translation "inside" is correct or not, i mean how can kong jian know there is something inside? or "inside" just means other meaning

Would be interesting if shaolin also knew the secret and wanted to get their hands on the dragon sabre because they knew what's inside.

[a_tumiwa]

DS - free for all to investigate.
HS - rightful owner is still Emei. Destroying it is against the whole Emei.

The latest edition noted that there is a map to Peach Blossom Island for the treasures. But is the map in HS or DS?

both, you need to combine each half of iron plates from both weapons.

i still dilemma about the word "inside" said out by kongjian, if anyone can check the mandarin version, then that would help.

[Ken Cheng]

DS - free for all to investigate.
HS - rightful owner is still Emei. Destroying it is against the whole Emei.

The latest edition noted that there is a map to Peach Blossom Island for the treasures. But is the map in HS or DS?

The Heaven Sword being in Ngor Mei Sect custody was appropriate, as the Ngor Mei Sect was founded by Gwok Seung, the daughter of Gwok Jing and Wong Yung, who created the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre. I do think the Dragon Sabre should also properly have been Ngor Mei Sect's property, but if not Ngor Mei Sect, then perhaps the Beggar's Union, as that was Wong Yung's organization during the Mongol War.

[pannonian]

The Heaven Sword being in Ngor Mei Sect custody was appropriate, as the Ngor Mei Sect was founded by Gwok Seung, the daughter of Gwok Jing and Wong Yung, who created the Heaven Sword and the Dragon Sabre. I do think the Dragon Sabre should also properly have been Ngor Mei Sect's property, but if not Ngor Mei Sect, then perhaps the Beggar's Union, as that was Wong Yung's organization during the Mongol War.

And if we go further back, both belonged to the Ancient Tomb, from whose swords the two weapons were made. But in the end, just as with the line of Wulin's most revered, the ownership of the weapons was not the issue. Just as the sabre did not make its owner Wulin's most revered, but instead it was Wulin's most revered who was accorded ownership of the sabre, so it was not ownership of the two weapons that was the issue, but it was ownership of the responsibility conferred by the two weapons that was the issue. Shaolin's abbot made the point that, since Ming Jiao's leader was undisputedly Wulin's most revered, and thus ownership of the sabre rightfully belonged to him. And with that, Ming Jiao openly took ownership of the responsibility of the sabre's purpose.

Actually, as has been noted on here before, Ming Jiao took ownership of the responsibility before that, and after the resolution of Brightness Peak, little of the story was relevant. But that's the weakness of the HSDS story.

[Doc Kwok]

DS - free for all to investigate.
HS - rightful owner is still Emei. Destroying it is against the whole Emei.

The heaven sword was not always in the possession of Emei - even Miejue herself stated that both weapons had a long string of owners, of which Emei was merely the latest. Remember Jinhua Popo's first reaction to seeing it - she was surprised, and mumbled to herself 'So the heaven sword has fallen into the hands of the Emei sect'.

Arguably they had a strong claim to it as the descendents of Guo Xiang, but as Emei kept the origin of the weapons a tightly-held secret, from the perspective of the average wulin member they had no more inherent right to it than anyone else.

The latest edition noted that there is a map to Peach Blossom Island for the treasures. But is the map in HS or DS?

The plate in the heaven sword described where the island was (普渡山東桃花島), while the dragon sabre had a map showing where it was hidden on the island (presumably because the map takes up a lot more space?).

[pannonian]

The heaven sword was not always in the possession of Emei - even Miejue herself stated that both weapons had a long string of owners, of which Emei was merely the latest. Remember Jinhua Popo's first reaction to seeing it - she was surprised, and mumbled to herself 'So the heaven sword has fallen into the hands of the Emei sect'.

Arguably they had a strong claim to it as the descendents of Guo Xiang, but as Emei kept the origin of the weapons a tightly-held secret, from the perspective of the average wulin member they had no more inherent right to it than anyone else.



The plate in the heaven sword described where the island was (普渡山東桃花島), while the dragon sabre had a map showing where it was hidden on the island (presumably because the map takes up a lot more space?).

I thought the heaven sword had a copy of all the martial arts, while the dragon sabre had a high performance magnifying glass. One without the other was useless, although I suppose you could use the magnifying glass to burn the enemy if they held still for long enough. In the first edition the heaven sword had a copy of 9 yin, dragon palms and the complete Encyclopedia Britannica, but in the second edition Jinyong thought it was far fetched and took out the Encyclopedia and put in the Oxford English Dictionary instead. It's why the heaven sword breaks every weapon it comes into contact with. Due to all the tomes inside, the heaven sword had a mass greater than the Heavy Iron Sword.

[Stance]

From wikipedia.

Hidden in the blade of the Dragon Saber is a military treatise titled Book of Wumu (武穆遺書), authored by Yue Fei. Similarly, concealed in the blade of the Heaven Sword are two scrolls detailing the Nine Yin Manual and Guo Jing's "Eighteen Dragon Subduing Palms".

The Dragon Saber was given to Guo Jing and Huang Rong's son Guo Polu, while their younger daughter Guo Xiang inherited the Heaven Sword.

The content of the hidden book and scrolls, in addition to the fact that the weapons can only be damaged and broken when used against each other, was the source of the claim that whoever possesses the Dragon Saber will rule the world and yet only the one who possesses the Heaven Sword can stand against the wielder of the Saber.

The secret of the weapons was passed down only from the leader of each generation of the Emei Sect to her successor. Miejue is succeeded by Zhou Zhiruo and the secret is passed on to the latter. In the novel, Zhou Zhiruo gains possession of both weapons through her cunning and deception and she breaks them to obtain their contents.

In the latest revision, two halves of an iron-plated map are hidden in the weapons instead of manuals. Once pieced together, the map points out the location of Peach Blossom Island, where the manuals are hidden. Jin Yong reasoned that the change was due to a possibility that the dissection of the weapons will cause the manuals to be burnt, hence two pieces of an iron-plated map would be better substitutes.

Analogy:
In Chinese culture, the Dragon is a symbol of the emperor or sovereign ruler. The full translated name of the Dragon Saber is "Dragon Slaying Saber" (屠龍刀), which implies that it is used to "slay the emperor". In this case, the "emperor" refers to Emperor Huizong of the Yuan dynasty.

Throughout Chinese history, several monarchs have become tyrants, just like when the mythical Dragon goes out of control and becomes a menace. The Heaven Sword's full translated name is "Heaven Reliant Sword" (倚天劍) as it embodies Heaven. In Chinese culture, the emperor is respectfully called the "Son of Heaven", which implies that Heaven is the ultimate authority in determining who will be the ruler of China.

It can thus be interpreted as such: The secret in the Dragon Slaying Saber can be used to "kill" (dethrone) the (Mongol) emperor and replace him with another (Han Chinese) ruler. Ideally, a brilliant military leader can use the textbook to its full potential by staging a rebellion to overthrow the Yuan dynasty and restore Han Chinese rule. However, if the new emperor turns out to be an incompetent monarch or a tyrant, a martial artist can master the skills from the manuals in the Heaven Reliant Sword, assassinate the emperor and replace him with a wise and benevolent ruler.

[wkeej]

Doc Kwok's explanation sounds more logical. We need a map showing the location of Peach Blossom Island, and another map showing the location of the treasures on the Island.