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Thread: Did the secrets of the HS and the DS become widely known in wulin?

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    Default Did the secrets of the HS and the DS become widely known in wulin?

    For decades, the people of wulin fought bitterly over the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, believing the weapons would grant them wulin supremacy, but not knowing the reason.

    By the end of HSDS, the secrets of the two weapons, as the legacy of Gwok Jing and Wong Yung, was known to a handful of people, but did these previous secrets eventually become widespread public knowledge? After all, it seems that after the HSDS story, wulin is no longer interested in these two weapons. Is it because everybody realized that the secrets were the Mo Muk War Tactics Manual and the 9 Yum Jen Ging? The Mo Muk War Tactics Manual was useless to those who didn't have imperial ambitions or lacked an army, and while the 9 Yum Jen Ging would interest wulin people, it was unattainable in Ngor Mei Sect custody.

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    To think about it, the secret works. Zhu Yuanzhang became Emperor and ZZR possibly one of the highest skilled MA exponent assuming she learnt the 9 yin properly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    To think about it, the secret works. Zhu Yuanzhang became Emperor and ZZR possibly one of the highest skilled MA exponent assuming she learnt the 9 yin properly.
    TBH no one except HS ever become "great" after fully mastered 9 Yin Manual alone so I doubt ZZR could reach great level with her background martial art base..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    TBH no one except HS ever become "great" after fully mastered 9 Yin Manual alone so I doubt ZZR could reach great level with her background martial art base..
    Gwok Jing did. Without 9 Yum Jen Ging, he wasn't likely to reach Greats level by his thirties or perhaps even ever.

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    At that point of the story, everyone knows that
    1. Whatever secret was in/with the Dragon blade was already gone.
    2. The Dragon blade was broken and forged back by Ming sect. At this point, it's just a regular, albeit sharper than normal, blade.
    So no one really covets it anymore.

    Besides, the blade and almost surely its secret are already in the hand of Ming sect. Who the hell dares to take it from them? Plus, Ming sect is already Wulin's no 1, and will soon be the whole country's sole ruler. They can't get any more no. 1 with the blade. If I'm not from Ming sect, I'd rather that the blade is with them than with some other schmuck.

    So basically, no one cares at this point anymore. People might go after ZZR to figure out what she has but that's about it.

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    I mean ZZR did not have great level martial art "background" while GJ have Dragon Palm which 9 Yin could "boost" his prowess and skill and reach great level with his background/base skill same with ZBT even without 9 Yin but only with QZ skill and Vacant Fist (which great level skill) could reach great level (or near great level) and I think GJ still could great level without 9 Yin with his "original" skill (Dragon Palm + QZ) but not as fast if he learn 9 Yin but still he can..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    For decades, the people of wulin fought bitterly over the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre, believing the weapons would grant them wulin supremacy, but not knowing the reason.

    By the end of HSDS, the secrets of the two weapons, as the legacy of Gwok Jing and Wong Yung, was known to a handful of people, but did these previous secrets eventually become widespread public knowledge? After all, it seems that after the HSDS story, wulin is no longer interested in these two weapons. Is it because everybody realized that the secrets were the Mo Muk War Tactics Manual and the 9 Yum Jen Ging?
    No, the secrets were not public knowledge. I don't think anyone except ZZR even realised they were connected to GJ and HY.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Mo Muk War Tactics Manual was useless to those who didn't have imperial ambitions or lacked an army, and while the 9 Yum Jen Ging would interest wulin people, it was unattainable in Ngor Mei Sect custody.
    The martial arts manuals (which included, but was not limited to 9 yin) were last seen in the hands of ZWJ (after ZM stole them from ZZR while she was being healed). ZWJ never returned them, not even in the extended epilogue of the 3rd edition. Emei would be limited to what ZZR could remember (and it is unlikely that she memorised everything by heart).

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    So ZWJ with knowledge of 9 Yang, QKDNY & Tai Chi, now also holds, 9 Yin & 18 Dragon Palms.

    How would you rank him if he learnt all that or pass all those skills down to his kid?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post

    The martial arts manuals (which included, but was not limited to 9 yin) were last seen in the hands of ZWJ (after ZM stole them from ZZR while she was being healed). ZWJ never returned them, not even in the extended epilogue of the 3rd edition. Emei would be limited to what ZZR could remember (and it is unlikely that she memorised everything by heart).
    Interesting. So 9 Yin is always with zwj.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    Interesting. So 9 Yin is always with zwj.
    I doubt he ever used it, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stance View Post
    So ZWJ with knowledge of 9 Yang, QKDNY & Tai Chi, now also holds, 9 Yin & 18 Dragon Palms.

    How would you rank him if he learnt all that or pass all those skills down to his kid?
    Except he can "combine" 9 Yin with 9 Yang I doubt he would much better than GJ/XF perhaps around DFBB level IMHO at best..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Except he can "combine" 9 Yin with 9 Yang I doubt he would much better than GJ/XF perhaps around DFBB level IMHO at best..
    I don't think Cheung Mo Gei would be able to train in the 9 Yum Jen Ging because he already mentally convinced himself it wasn't possible, except maybe for his grandteacher Cheung 3 Fung.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I don't think Cheung Mo Gei would be able to train in the 9 Yum Jen Ging because he already mentally convinced himself it wasn't possible, except maybe for his grandteacher Cheung 3 Fung.
    ZWJ isn't exactly a very confident guy. He didn't think he would be able to learn QKDNY in time to escape from the secret passage. He wouldn't have even tried had XZ not pushed him. Then he turned around and mastered the whole thing in like 1 or 2 days.

    I think ZWJ, being the martial arts nerd that he is, would be able to combine 9 Yin and 9 Yang. Whether or not he has the motivation to do that is a different story. I think he'd rather just roam around practicing medicine than martial arts, unless some extraordinary events happen that would threaten his family, like if Zhu Yuanzhang hires a bunch of top martial artists to kill him to remove the only threat to his throne.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EdenResident View Post
    ZWJ isn't exactly a very confident guy. He didn't think he would be able to learn QKDNY in time to escape from the secret passage. He wouldn't have even tried had XZ not pushed him. Then he turned around and mastered the whole thing in like 1 or 2 days.

    I think ZWJ, being the martial arts nerd that he is, would be able to combine 9 Yin and 9 Yang. Whether or not he has the motivation to do that is a different story. I think he'd rather just roam around practicing medicine than martial arts, unless some extraordinary events happen that would threaten his family, like if Zhu Yuanzhang hires a bunch of top martial artists to kill him to remove the only threat to his throne.
    Well don't forget to learn 9 Yin someone must have "taoist background" which Wuji lack it's true he mastered Tai Chi but he did it with his 9 Yang (which not taoist skill) since his neigong base is 9 Yang which not "taoist" if he force himself learn 9 Yin he only learn 9 Yin "external art" like 9 Yin White Bone Claw or Heart Shattering Palm..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well don't forget to learn 9 Yin someone must have "taoist background" which Wuji lack it's true he mastered Tai Chi but he did it with his 9 Yang (which not taoist skill) since his neigong base is 9 Yang which not "taoist" if he force himself learn 9 Yin he only learn 9 Yin "external art" like 9 Yin White Bone Claw or Heart Shattering Palm..
    You don't need to have a Taoist background to learn 9 yin - Guo Jing most certainly did not. You do need to be familiar with Taoist terminology though, which GJ learnt from Ma Yu when learning Quanzhen inner power. Mei Chaofeng also managed to get quite far after she had a few terms explained to her by GJ and MY. Xiaolongnu also seemed familiar with Taoist terminology, and had no trouble deciphering 9 yin or the Quanzhen song. Even 1 Deng with his Buddhist background managed to learn a part of it.

    ZWJ lived on Wudang for two years, and his earliest foundation was in Wudang martial arts taught by his father (2nd/3rd editions). He should be in a much better position to learn Taoist skills compared to GJ, XLN or MCF. And even if he didn't - he could simply walk up to Wudang or one of the Taoists in the Ming cult and ask for help. Unlike MCF or YG, he is on good terms with them - they would be more than happy to help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I don't think Cheung Mo Gei would be able to train in the 9 Yum Jen Ging because he already mentally convinced himself it wasn't possible, except maybe for his grandteacher Cheung 3 Fung.
    This disappeared in the third edition. Jinyong went on a 'all good martial arts are balanced' tangent in the third edition. 9 yin is yin... except for the Sanskrit section, which balances it out with yang, so all in all it is balanced. 9 yang is balanced because the creator thought 9 yin was too yin and thought he could improve on it, so 9 yang is balanced... except it leans a bit to the yang side. Dragon palms is yang and forceful... only it isn't just that. etc. etc.

    Personally, I find more lopsided martial-arts more interesting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    You don't need to have a Taoist background to learn 9 yin - Guo Jing most certainly did not. You do need to be familiar with Taoist terminology though, which GJ learnt from Ma Yu when learning Quanzhen inner power. Mei Chaofeng also managed to get quite far after she had a few terms explained to her by GJ and MY. Xiaolongnu also seemed familiar with Taoist terminology, and had no trouble deciphering 9 yin or the Quanzhen song. Even 1 Deng with his Buddhist background managed to learn a part of it.

    ZWJ lived on Wudang for two years, and his earliest foundation was in Wudang martial arts taught by his father (2nd/3rd editions). He should be in a much better position to learn Taoist skills compared to GJ, XLN or MCF. And even if he didn't - he could simply walk up to Wudang or one of the Taoists in the Ming cult and ask for help. Unlike MCF or YG, he is on good terms with them - they would be more than happy to help.
    Read carefully did Wuji use his taoist art as his "base neigong" like ZBT or GJ and for YD (and H7Q) they only learn how to "heal" their injury not to "boost" their prowess like GJ (and ZBT)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Read carefully did Wuji use his taoist art as his "base neigong" like ZBT or GJ and for YD (and H7Q) they only learn how to "heal" their injury not to "boost" their prowess like GJ (and ZBT)..
    In ROCH, it was stated that H7G's martial arts benefited greatly from the small portion of 9 yin that he obtained from GJ, so it wasn't just healing.

    Where on earth did you get the idea that a Taoist neigong base was required to learn 9 yin? Of all the characters who practiced it, only GJ and ZBT had such a base, but they were not the only ones who benefited from it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc Kwok View Post
    In ROCH, it was stated that H7G's martial arts benefited greatly from the small portion of 9 yin that he obtained from GJ, so it wasn't just healing.

    Where on earth did you get the idea that a Taoist neigong base was required to learn 9 yin? Of all the characters who practiced it, only GJ and ZBT had such a base, but they were not the only ones who benefited from it.
    YG (and XLN) learn QZ before he learn 9 Yin I not say Wuji couldn't learn 9 Yin but if he aim to "combine" 9 Yin with 9 Yang he can't for sure since he didn't have taoist neigong as his "base neigong" so he only could learn 9 Yin external art which not contain internal at all just like MCF did (and perhaps Lady Yang)..
    And for H7Q don't forget he once learn 9 Yin theory/philoshophy when he was injury in remotely island which he give GJ some of "advise" so given that fact he know 9 Yin at least in "theory" except the healing method

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    Without taoist neigong someone only could learn 9 Yin external art but with taoist neigong he could learn and have better internal boosting as well as "combine" with other internal art which Wuji lack that was I mean so he couldn't "combine" 9 Yin and 9 Yang as he mention in novel which only Z3F can..

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