Who is Fok Do of ROCH? Where is Jik Bik?

[Trien Chieu]

Who is Fok Do of ROCH? We know he is a Mongolian prince, a few years younger than Kwok Jing. Given GJ connection with Genghis Khan, Tolui, Hua Jeng, etc. How could he not know Fok Do? Where is Jik Bik, KJ bow and arrow teacher? He is not in ROCH.

[Ken Cheng]

Who is Fok Do of ROCH? We know he is a Mongolian prince, a few years younger than Kwok Jing. Given GJ connection with Genghis Khan, Tolui, Hua Jeng, etc. How could he not know Fok Do? Where is Jik Bik, KJ bow and arrow teacher? He is not in ROCH.

Fok Do is rumored to have been a descendant of Temujin's old anda brother Jamukha. General Jebeh had perished in war by the time of ROCH. I believe he died during the western campaigns in the Middle East.

[a_tumiwa]

yes, Huodu (fok do) is the descendant of Jamukha.
Jamukha was executed by Temujin after he and Ong Khan+Senggum tried to eliminate Temujin.

probably because of the past relationship, Temujin still gave jamukha's descendant a small title and place to live

[Trien Chieu]

yes, Huodu (fok do) is the descendant of Jamukha.
Jamukha was executed by Temujin after he and Ong Khan+Senggum tried to eliminate Temujin.

probably because of the past relationship, Temujin still gave jamukha's descendant a small title and place to live

Based on LOCH1982, YES. Jamukha was forced by Senggum into rebellion against Temujin against his will. Temujin forgave him but Jamukha refused. Jamukha committed suicide.

Based on LOCH2019, NO. Jamukha and Ongkhan + Senggum rebelled against Temujin due to difference in politics. Temujin shot Jamukha to death and very likely that will kill Jamukha entire family and loved ones.

Fok Do is rumored to have been a descendant of Temujin's old anda brother Jamukha. General Jebeh had perished in war by the time of ROCH. I believe he died during the western campaigns in the Middle East.

General Jebeh should not go to war. He seem to not care too much about material wealth. He seem to enjoy simple life in Mongolia.

[a_tumiwa]

Based on LOCH1982, YES. Jamukha was forced by Senggum into rebellion against Temujin against his will. Temujin forgave him but Jamukha refused. Jamukha committed suicide.

Based on LOCH2019, NO. Jamukha and Ongkhan + Senggum rebelled against Temujin due to difference in politics. Temujin shot Jamukha to death and very likely that will kill Jamukha entire family and loved ones.

that's the difference between tv adaptation and novel , in the novel 3rd edition, Jamukha was executed without any blood (crushed by something) as requested by Temujin to respect their past relationship

[pannonian]

Based on LOCH1982, YES. Jamukha was forced by Senggum into rebellion against Temujin against his will. Temujin forgave him but Jamukha refused. Jamukha committed suicide.

Based on LOCH2019, NO. Jamukha and Ongkhan + Senggum rebelled against Temujin due to difference in politics. Temujin shot Jamukha to death and very likely that will kill Jamukha entire family and loved ones.



General Jebeh should not go to war. He seem to not care too much about material wealth. He seem to enjoy simple life in Mongolia.

Song China should not go to war with Mongolia. There is enough land in the south to satisfy Chinese. Song generals should not attack their allies.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

yes, Huodu (fok do) is the descendant of Jamukha.
Jamukha was executed by Temujin after he and Ong Khan+Senggum tried to eliminate Temujin.

probably because of the past relationship, Temujin still gave jamukha's descendant a small title and place to live

This shows how much GK valued friendship. Even though his sworn brother betrayed him he still gave him an honorable death and took care of his family.

[Trien Chieu]

that's the difference between tv adaptation and novel , in the novel 3rd edition, Jamukha was executed without any blood (crushed by something) as requested by Temujin to respect their past relationship

Yeah. If you go by history, Jamukha lost in a war. Temujin did not want to kill him and wanted to resume their relationship because Jamukha had been a good sworn brother to him. Jamukha saved his life.

Song China should not go to war with Mongolia. There is enough land in the south to satisfy Chinese. Song generals should not attack their allies.

The Song made mistakes for attacking their allies. I wonder what was the agreement between them. However, the Mongol took it to the extreme and conquer the whole Song and so many other countries, more than they can ever govern. Consequently, the Mongol Empire collapsed shortly afterwards. The best piece of land, Inner Mongolia, that was belonging to them is no longer their. If the Mongol didn't take the extreme path but to keep what they had, things would be much better off for them. Inner Mongolia would still belong to them.

This shows how much GK valued friendship. Even though his sworn brother betrayed him he still gave him an honorable death and took care of his family.

Jamukha saved his life and helped rescuing his wife. Jamukha had done a lot for GK, probably more than GK had ever done for him. Helping GK was the biggest mistake Jamukha ever did. If he did not help GK, GK probably could not make it. Jamukha would be the great leader of Mongol instead.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Jamukha saved his life and helped rescuing his wife. Jamukha had done a lot for GK, probably more than GK had ever done for him. Helping GK was the biggest mistake Jamukha ever did. If he did not help GK, GK probably could not make it. Jamukha would be the great leader of Mongol instead.Are you encouraging backstabbing?

[wkeej]

Jamukha saved his life and helped rescuing his wife. Jamukha had done a lot for GK, probably more than GK had ever done for him. Helping GK was the biggest mistake Jamukha ever did. If he did not help GK, GK probably could not make it. Jamukha would be the great leader of Mongol instead.

Are you encouraging backstabbing?

OT: Remind me of Liu Bang and Xiang Yu. If the latter has not helped the former and killed the former ...

[Trien Chieu]

This shows how much GK valued friendship. Even though his sworn brother betrayed him he still gave him an honorable death and took care of his family.

Jamukha saved his life and helped rescuing his wife. Jamukha had done a lot for GK, probably more than GK had ever done for him. Helping GK was the biggest mistake Jamukha ever did. If he did not help GK, GK probably could not make it. Jamukha would be the great leader of Mongol instead.

Are you encouraging backstabbing?

No, I don't encourage backstabbing. Kwok Jing saved GK many times and always great to his family. However, GK would use his mother as hostage. Li Ping treated Hua Jeng like a daughter all her life and HJ backstabbed her that lead to her death. All the poor lady wanted is going back to her hometown and retire there. I wonder what is in her mind when she betrayed someone like Li Ping.

OT: Remind me of Liu Bang and Xiang Yu. If the latter has not helped the former and killed the former ...

Yeah, very true. Liu Bang should honour the treaty. Again, Xiang Yu made fatal mistakes. History is very different than Wuxia. In history, the cunning bastard mostly win in the end. The hero mostly die in vain.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

[/QUOTE]No, I don't encourage backstabbing. Kwok Jing saved GK many times and always great to his family. However, GK would use his mother as hostage. Li Ping treated Hua Jeng like a daughter all her life and HJ backstabbed her that lead to her death. All the poor lady wanted is going back to her hometown and retire there. I wonder what is in her mind when she betrayed someone like Li Ping.[/QUOTE]

And GK treated GJ like a son, forgiving him for offenses that would get anyone else killed. LP was treated like a respected aunt within the Khan's family and HJ 'backstabbing' was an unintentional slip. GK had nothing against LP retiring back to her hometown, but that was not her only intention. She was going to reveal his plans to the Song, making it a matter of national priority not a personal malicious act.

I wonder what LP was thinking when she betrayed the man and people who took her in, respected her and gave her son opportunities normally reserved for nobility.

[wkeej]

OT: MS, I like your last comment about mother Li Ping. Maybe that's why she need to die in the story.

[Trien Chieu]

And GK treated GJ like a son, forgiving him for offenses that would get anyone else killed. LP was treated like a respected aunt within the Khan's family and HJ 'backstabbing' was an unintentional slip. GK had nothing against LP retiring back to her hometown, but that was not her only intention. She was going to reveal his plans to the Song, making it a matter of national priority not a personal malicious act.

I wonder what LP was thinking when she betrayed the man and people who took her in, respected her and gave her son opportunities normally reserved for nobility.

OT: MS, I like your last comment about mother Li Ping. Maybe that's why she need to die in the story.

Not intentional. Given how ruthless GK is, Hua Jeng should know what her father is capable with. Kwok Jing is a lot more powerful than Tolui and other Mongolian princes in term of martial art. It is not difficult for him to murder them. If Li Ping is bad, she could have ask her son to murder them. But no, she did not do that. All she wanted is to flee. Yes, she would reveal the plans to the Song. Who in the world would want her fellow people face the same fate like the citizens of the countries invaded by the Mongols.

wkeej. We see villains die all the times and we don't feel bad about it because of all the bad deeds that they have done. Regarding Li Ping, I found her death very very tragic. She has been good all her life. A good wife to her husband, a good mother to her son, a good friend to her friends, a good citizen to her country, always nice to others and treating others with respect, never had ill intention for others. The only thing I don't like about her is her attitude toward Wong Yung so I guess no one is perfect. She is always bias toward Hua Jeng. Not in a million years that she can imagine someone she loves so much for all these years would be the person who backstabbed her that lead to her death.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Not intentional. Given how ruthless GK is, Hua Jeng should know what her father is capable with. Kwok Jing is a lot more powerful than Tolui and other Mongolian princes in term of martial art. It is not difficult for him to murder them. If Li Ping is bad, she could have ask her son to murder them. But no, she did not do that. All she wanted is to flee. Yes, she would reveal the plans to the Song. Who in the world would want her fellow people face the same fate like the citizens of the countries invaded by the Mongols.

wkeej. We see villains die all the times and we don't feel bad about it because of all the bad deeds that they have done. Regarding Li Ping, I found her death very very tragic. She has been good all her life. A good wife to her husband, a good mother to her son, a good friend to her friends, a good citizen to her country, always nice to others and treating others with respect, never had ill intention for others. The only thing I don't like about her is her attitude toward Wong Yung so I guess no one is perfect. She is always bias toward Hua Jeng. Not in a million years that she can imagine someone she loves so much for all these years would be the person who backstabbed her that lead to her death.

Did LP show ingratitude to people who took her in, treated her well, gave opportunities to her son, yes or no?
Who killed LP husband the Mongol or the Song?
What the hell makes you think HJ slip was intentional or that she had any idea LP would die? Which version has you read or watched that gives the slightest indication that HJ was this malicious.

[Trien Chieu]

No, I don't encourage backstabbing. Kwok Jing saved GK many times and always great to his family. However, GK would use his mother as hostage. Li Ping treated Hua Jeng like a daughter all her life and HJ backstabbed her that lead to her death. All the poor lady wanted is going back to her hometown and retire there. I wonder what is in her mind when she betrayed someone like Li Ping.[/QUOTE]

And GK treated GJ like a son, forgiving him for offenses that would get anyone else killed. LP was treated like a respected aunt within the Khan's family and HJ 'backstabbing' was an unintentional slip. GK had nothing against LP retiring back to her hometown, but that was not her only intention. She was going to reveal his plans to the Song, making it a matter of national priority not a personal malicious act.

I wonder what LP was thinking when she betrayed the man and people who took her in, respected her and gave her son opportunities normally reserved for nobility.[/QUOTE]

OT: MS, I like your last comment about mother Li Ping. Maybe that's why she need to die in the story.

Did LP show ingratitude to people who took her in, treated her well, gave opportunities to her son, yes or no?
Who killed LP husband the Mongol or the Song?
What the hell makes you think HJ slip was intentional or that she had any idea LP would die? Which version has you read or watched that gives the slightest indication that HJ was this malicious.

No. I can't think of any moment Li Ping being ingrate to the Mongol while living there. She never hurt any Mongolian for all the years she lived there. She always taught her son to remember all the good things that GK and his family provide them. She treated Hua Jeng and Tolui like daughter and son. KJ saved GK many times. I can't think of any moment that Li Ping and KJ being ingrate to GK and his family. Regarding Hua Jeng, she underestimated Li Ping. She thought Li Ping would give in and do what GK demanded. Regarding KST, he was killed by Wanyan Honglie and Duan Tiande, neither Mongol nor Song.

[Trien Chieu]

Did LP show ingratitude to people who took her in, treated her well, gave opportunities to her son, yes or no?
Who killed LP husband the Mongol or the Song?
What the hell makes you think HJ slip was intentional or that she had any idea LP would die? Which version has you read or watched that gives the slightest indication that HJ was this malicious.

No. I can't think of any moment Li Ping being ingrate to the Mongol while living there. She never hurt any Mongolian for all the years she lived there. She always taught her son to remember all the good things that GK and his family provide them. She treated Hua Jeng and Tolui like daughter and son. KJ saved GK many times. I can't think of any moment that Li Ping and KJ being ingrate to GK and his family. Regarding Hua Jeng, she underestimated Li Ping. She thought Li Ping would give in and do what GK demanded.

Regarding Kwok Siu Tin, he was killed by Wanyan Honglie and Duan Tiande, neither Mongol nor Song.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

No. I can't think of any moment Li Ping being ingrate to the Mongol while living there. She never hurt any Mongolian for all the years she lived there. She always taught her son to remember all the good things that GK and his family provide them. She treated Hua Jeng and Tolui like daughter and son. KJ saved GK many times. I can't think of any moment that Li Ping and KJ being ingrate to GK and his family. Regarding Hua Jeng, she underestimated Li Ping. She thought Li Ping would give in and do what GK demanded.

Regarding Kwok Siu Tin, he was killed by Wanyan Honglie and Duan Tiande, neither Mongol nor Song.

So you have no proof of HJ's actions being deliberate, nor can you offer up a shred of evidence that she was being malicious.
So LP considered the Khan's children as her own family, then that makes her actions a double betrayal. On a personal level she betrayed the confidence of a close friend/family who entrusted a secret to her son. On a national level by disobeying a direct command from the ruler of the land she was committing treason.

Was Duan Tiande a Song official and were his men Song soldiers? The fact the the Song government was so ineffective and corrupt that their own soldiers and officials could be bribed into attacking their own citizens is proof that they bare the responsibility for the killing of Guo Xiaotian.

[Trien Chieu]

Hua Jeng thought LP is weak and would do anything to save her life. However, LP was strong and would rather die for greater good. LP did not consider they are her children but she treated them with respect and love. She lives a simple life and minds her business when she lives in Mongolia. No one ever complains about her. Yeah, she refuses to let her son invades her native country, genocide against her people. If that is treason then so be it.

Regarding Duan Tiande, he paid the price for what he did.

[Mandred Skavenslayer]

Hua Jeng thought LP is weak and would do anything to save her life. However, LP was strong and would rather die for greater good. LP did not consider they are her children but she treated them with respect and love. She lives a simple life and minds her business when she lives in Mongolia. No one ever complains about her. Yeah, she refuses to let her son invades her native country, genocide against her people. If that is treason then so be it.

Regarding Duan Tiande, he paid the price for what he did.

Still no proof of HJ maliciousness, just your biased opinion.
Treated HJ & TL like her own children (your comment on 10/06/2020) but not as family (your comment 11/06/2020), do you even read your own comments?
She had no problem with her son helping to invade other nations to commit genocide.
So you admit it was a Song officer who killed Guo Xiaotian and the Song must shoulder responsibility?