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Thread: If only the Mongols were more united

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    Default If only the Mongols were more united

    Although not all the Greats went to aid Xiangyang throughout, at least there was no internal fighting.

    But the same can't be said of the Mongol's heroes. We have GWM having to fend off Ni Mo Xing, Xia Ke Xing and the other shorty. Worse, his own disciples were fighting-Huo Du was self-serving and Da Er Ba, while loyal, was still upset about the loss of his senior and often was at loggerheads with Huo Du.

    If only they had united, I think more can be achieved. For instance, look at Huo Du. He alone was able to infiltrate the Beggar Sect and almost became the leader. Imagine if he didn't work alone but was aided and successfully becomes the Beggar Sect chief? The Beggar Sect was pivotal to the defence of Xiangyang, not just as fighters but more as an intelligence network that snuffed out threats before they approached. With this network gone, or even worse, compromised, I dare say Xiangyang will fall easily. Just imagine Huo Du as the Beggar Sect chief demanding to open the gates late at night and the Mongols rush in.

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    Or he could poison everyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    Although not all the Greats went to aid Xiangyang throughout, at least there was no internal fighting.

    But the same can't be said of the Mongol's heroes. We have GWM having to fend off Ni Mo Xing, Xia Ke Xing and the other shorty. Worse, his own disciples were fighting-Huo Du was self-serving and Da Er Ba, while loyal, was still upset about the loss of his senior and often was at loggerheads with Huo Du.

    If only they had united, I think more can be achieved. For instance, look at Huo Du. He alone was able to infiltrate the Beggar Sect and almost became the leader. Imagine if he didn't work alone but was aided and successfully becomes the Beggar Sect chief? The Beggar Sect was pivotal to the defence of Xiangyang, not just as fighters but more as an intelligence network that snuffed out threats before they approached. With this network gone, or even worse, compromised, I dare say Xiangyang will fall easily. Just imagine Huo Du as the Beggar Sect chief demanding to open the gates late at night and the Mongols rush in.
    The Persian Merchant who serve Khubilai is Yin Kexi not Xia Ke Cing while the Hindu Monk name is Nimoxing..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    The Persian Merchant who serve Khubilai is Yin Kexi not Xia Ke Cing while the Hindu Monk name is Nimoxing..
    Ah yes, brain fart.

    So yeah, the Mongols and their alliance were not united at all.

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    Yeeep very different with Zhao Min henchmen in HSDS..

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    I blame Kublai for making it a competition among his warriors rather than a collaborative effort. By offering the reward of "#1 Warrior of the Mongol Empire" to whomever could bring him the head of Gwok Jing, Kublai pretty much set his hired warriors to be at loggerheads with each other rather than working together. He probably should have told them that they would be rewarded as a team if they succeeded in their mission.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I blame Kublai for making it a competition among his warriors rather than a collaborative effort. By offering the reward of "#1 Warrior of the Mongol Empire" to whomever could bring him the head of Gwok Jing, Kublai pretty much set his hired warriors to be at loggerheads with each other rather than working together. He probably should have told them that they would be rewarded as a team if they succeeded in their mission.
    Totally agree..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I blame Kublai for making it a competition among his warriors rather than a collaborative effort. By offering the reward of "#1 Warrior of the Mongol Empire" to whomever could bring him the head of Gwok Jing, Kublai pretty much set his hired warriors to be at loggerheads with each other rather than working together. He probably should have told them that they would be rewarded as a team if they succeeded in their mission.
    Add to this, the fact was that GWM was superior by a couple of leagues.

    Its like you have H7G, Sun Bu'er, Bao Butong, Yin Zhiping and you need them to do a task together and tell em, who finishes it gets the title of #1
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Haha pretty awful..

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    I think Kublai was trying to continue the Mongol tradition of meritocracy, which generally is a good idea and makes sense, but in this case, it backfired. As CC pointed out, with the Golden Wheel Monk being several times stronger than the others, the idea of it being a fair competition doesn't work. I wonder what approach Temujin would have taken in a similar situation were he still around to call the shots.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Yeeep very different with Zhao Min henchmen in HSDS..
    The HSDS-era Mongol henchmen weren't that much more unified. At one point, Chiu Mun had the Yeun Ming Elders going against Chan Yau Leung and Sing Kwun. Technically, all of those warriors were on the payroll of the Yuan Dynasty, but Chiu Mun's agenda began to deviate from that of her father and brother.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The HSDS-era Mongol henchmen weren't that much more unified. At one point, Chiu Mun had the Yeun Ming Elders going against Chan Yau Leung and Sing Kwun. Technically, all of those warriors were on the payroll of the Yuan Dynasty, but Chiu Mun's agenda began to deviate from that of her father and brother.
    You right I almost forget..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I think Kublai was trying to continue the Mongol tradition of meritocracy, which generally is a good idea and makes sense, but in this case, it backfired. As CC pointed out, with the Golden Wheel Monk being several times stronger than the others, the idea of it being a fair competition doesn't work. I wonder what approach Temujin would have taken in a similar situation were he still around to call the shots.
    Genghis didn't have any problems with his generals, all of whom subordinated themselves to him and his direction. He had a problem with his sons, namely Jochi and Chagatai, who pursued their own agendas. In that case, he set Ogedei to rule over them, and tried to get Jochi and Chagatai working together. That didn't work, and Jochi eventually rebelled against Genghis. Genghis organised an army to take down his eldest son, but Jochi died before any fighting took place.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I blame Kublai for making it a competition among his warriors rather than a collaborative effort. By offering the reward of "#1 Warrior of the Mongol Empire" to whomever could bring him the head of Gwok Jing, Kublai pretty much set his hired warriors to be at loggerheads with each other rather than working together. He probably should have told them that they would be rewarded as a team if they succeeded in their mission.
    With a team, it could lead to free riders.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wkeej View Post
    With a team, it could lead to free riders.
    The goal would still more likely get accomplished because at the very least, the warriors won't be working at cross-purposes.

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    Even if JLFW and the 4 Warriors working together as a "team" I'am still not sure they could kill GJ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Even if JLFW and the 4 Warriors working together as a "team" I'am still not sure they could kill GJ..
    Why not? When they exchanged palms for the first time, it was pretty clear that JLFW and GJ were on the same level. You can argue that GJ was better, but even so, marginally. With the 4 Warriors working together, this gap can be breached.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    Why not? When they exchanged palms for the first time, it was pretty clear that JLFW and GJ were on the same level. You can argue that GJ was better, but even so, marginally. With the 4 Warriors working together, this gap can be breached.
    Depends on whether Gwok Jing is fighting "smart" or "stupid." If Gwok Jing's goal is to stay alive by evading them and fighting only when necessary, he'll likely be successful. If he chooses to stand his ground and fight them all head-on, as he had to do to protect Yeung Gor, then we saw the results in ROCH.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyoyatika View Post
    Why not? When they exchanged palms for the first time, it was pretty clear that JLFW and GJ were on the same level. You can argue that GJ was better, but even so, marginally. With the 4 Warriors working together, this gap can be breached.
    Well in LOCH even ZBT QQR and OYF "combine power" couldn't "beat" young GJ..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Western Eccentric View Post
    Well in LOCH even ZBT QQR and OYF "combine power" couldn't "beat" young GJ..
    They didn't, but if that had gone on for another second or so, poor Gwok Jing would have been a bloody smear on the ground.

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