Off-topic mania

[Mike Liu]

On another forum I frequent, mods close down specific language threads. They do so because of a few reasons:

1) not everyone can participate

2) moderation would be harder

3) posts there would be allowed to drift OT, unlike the non-language topics

[Mike Liu]

Jay_z mentioned the worldplay thread should be closed. I totally disagree with that.

Why should anyone care about a topic like that? I mean, it's not like you're forced to open the thread and wade through all the pages if you don't want to participate.

The goal of a forum is to increase membership and loyalty. You do this by making the place fun and enjoyable, while at the same time, keeping some order. If you're gonna start enacting Nazi-type rules, it will only drive away people.

But that's just my opinion. I'm sure closing that thread down won't significantly deter any would-be spcnet members from joining.

[WuTang_Heroes]

On another forum I also frequent, there is a specific language forum for certain languages,see it for yourself :
www.club-siemens.com/forum

So, your points is ?

If I don't understand sports, and I can't participate in sports talk, is it isolate some members who don't like sports ?

If only certain people understand the meaning in that language thread, then why bother to moderate the contents ?
If someone feel insulted on that language thread, he/she can always pm the moderator to report the post.

Talking about OT topics, If I post in "If this forum was a village" (What a wide and huge topic, i can post anything i want there), so there won't be any off topics there ? get it ?
Same like if there's a post about alec su, we can talk anything as long as it's related to alec su, right ?
same goes for language threads, as long as it's related with the language, why would you bother ?

[Mike Liu]

Originally posted by WuTang_Heroes
On another forum I also frequent, there is a specific language forum for certain languages,see it for yourself :
www.club-siemens.com/forum

So, your points is ?

If I don't understand sports, and I can't participate in sports talk, is it isolate some members who don't like sports ?

If only certain people understand the meaning in that language thread, then why bother to moderate the contents ?
If someone feel insulted on that language thread, he/she can always pm the moderator to report the post.

Talking about OT topics, If I post in "If this forum was a village" (What a wide and huge topic, i can post anything i want there), so there won't be any off topics there ? get it ?
Same like if there's a post about alec su, we can talk anything as long as it's related to alec su, right ?
same goes for language threads, as long as it's related with the language, why would you bother ?

I never thought I'd live to see the day when I say this... but WuTang, you have a good point.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by Mike Liu

The goal of a forum is to increase membership and loyalty. You do this by making the place fun and enjoyable, while at the same time, keeping some order. If you're gonna start enacting Nazi-type rules, it will only drive away people.

I agree with this, the forum shouldn't be too strict and also shouldn't be too free.If you strict the rules, and people here didn't enjoy their time here like they use to be, then it's just a matter of time until this forum will be same as graveyard. And SC already paid the money for hosting, but if less people come ?

[jay_z]

Originally posted by Mike Liu
Jay_z mentioned the worldplay thread should be closed. I totally disagree with that.

Why should anyone care about a topic like that? I mean, it's not like you're forced to open the thread and wade through all the pages if you don't want to participate.

The goal of a forum is to increase membership and loyalty. You do this by making the place fun and enjoyable, while at the same time, keeping some order. If you're gonna start enacting Nazi-type rules, it will only drive away people.

But that's just my opinion. I'm sure closing that thread down won't significantly deter any would-be spcnet members from joining.

i changed my view. the wordplay thread is ok; the problem is the members that post in it. they friggin think it's a chatroom, exchanging their one-word messages back and forth.

as for the "what song are you listening to right now?" thread, it's ok, too if ppl would just use the EDIT option when they want to list a song, instead of making a new post for every song.

[spcnet]

And SC already paid the money for hosting, but if less people come ?

If it reaches a point where it becomes an inactive forum or where I am sick of the babble here, I stop paying for the next month. I might actually be happy when that day comes.

Talking about OT topics, If I post in "If this forum was a village" (What a wide and huge topic, i can post anything i want there), so there won't be any off topics there ? get it ?

We have no problems with the OT posts that are in topics like that because like you said, it's very broad. We're speaking of threads that have a distinct topic. For instance, to take a real example thread in Open Debate: "is the viewers' expectations getting lower and lower or is it just me?" When we have a thread topic like that, I expect most of the posts in there to be on this topic. If it becomes hijacked with irrelevant posts then it discourages other members who want to seriously discuss on this topic in participating.

I don't know if members notice or not, but quite a lot of threads are turning out like that. I personally find it very frusterating to see discussions that could lead to some interesting thoughts turn out into jokes and banterings between members that don't have anything to do with the topic. It changes the whole tone of the topic and I know there are many members who don't appreciate it. Why not go to the Can thread where you have explicit consent to do that?

As to the language threads, the main reason is still that it has become a 2-3 way chat between the same few members. So even if I were to allow language threads, it will only be on the grounds if there is a moderate amount of participants.

[Azalae]

I feel like we're going in circles here.

This is rather an accusatory assumption don't you think? Some members seem to assume that moderators don't bother to read anything and then voice these kind of judgements.

If you took a minute just to browse through MKB, you'd easily see there were more than merely 2-3 members participating. But you didn't even know that and were ready to close it nonetheless.

Once again, different dynamics, comparing an ISP forum that doesn't have to worry about minors, sex talks, and spam.

I was pointing to their group segmentations, heated debates, spams, and how the moderator/admin handle them there.

Can you provide some examples of where we closed/deleted threads due to spam?

There were several. Can't tell because I don't like naming names.

I'm not complaining the closing of threads because of (excessive) spams. Only of a thread if someone go off-topic. Because not always this is a bad thing.

[ToOn99]

Originally posted by spcnet
If it reaches a point where it becomes an inactive forum or where I am sick of the babble here, I stop paying for the next month. I might actually be happy when that day comes.



We have no problems with the OT posts that are in topics like that because like you said, it's very broad. We're speaking of threads that have a distinct topic. For instance, to take a real example thread in Open Debate: "is the viewers' expectations getting lower and lower or is it just me?" When we have a thread topic like that, I expect most of the posts in there to be on this topic. If it becomes hijacked with irrelevant posts then it discourages other members who want to seriously discuss on this topic in participating.

I don't know if members notice or not, but quite a lot of threads are turning out like that. I personally find it very frusterating to see discussions that could lead to some interesting thoughts turn out into jokes and banterings between members that don't have anything to do with the topic. It changes the whole tone of the topic and I know there are many members who don't appreciate it. Why not go to the Can thread where you have explicit consent to do that?

As to the language threads, the main reason is still that it has become a 2-3 way chat between the same few members. So even if I were to allow language threads, it will only be on the grounds if there is a moderate amount of participants.

just my suggestion, why dont the moddy delete the Out-of-topic posting instead of deleting the thread ? It might give a bit more work to Moddy, but it is worth to try.

[spcnet]

I think we are going in circles.

I admit that I wanted to close all the languages threads at first because I also felt that it was creating barriers. After reading some members passionately voice their reasons for keeping the Mari thread, I was ready to leave it. However, I feel that it was rather unfair of you to use that to say that moderators don't read through since I only wanted to give a reason for keeping that thread alive.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by spcnet
If it reaches a point where it becomes an inactive forum or where I am sick of the babble here, I stop paying for the next month. I might actually be happy when that day comes.

So let's all pray so that day never came... amen !

Originally posted by spcnet
We have no problems with the OT posts that are in topics like that because like you said, it's very broad. We're speaking of threads that have a distinct topic.

So are you saying that we're allowed to do that kind of thread ?
I was kidding lor, I know what you meant. But I think a bit off topic is fine, as long as it's not taking over the whole thread.
Yes I know, I was responsible for taking over such thread myself, my apology

[Ghaleon]

1984 by George Orwell. Good book. Sorta relates

the tighter you grip something, the easier it is to lose it

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by spcnet
I think we are going in circles.

I admit that I wanted to close all the languages threads at first because I also felt that it was creating barriers. After reading some members passionately voice their reasons for keeping the Mari thread, I was ready to leave it. However, I feel that it was rather unfair of you to use that to say that moderators don't read through since I only wanted to give a reason for keeping that thread alive.

We didn't attack you or the mods, just questioning the reason behind it
And for Azzy (Azalae) I think he means the same thing with me, a little off topic is okay, as long as it didn't hijack the whole thread.
We understand that moderating is not an easy job, each of you have your own life,yet you have to spend sometime here to do administrative task.
About the language thread, we just can't accept your reason for closing the thread because of few participants or barrier issues (read my post earlier against mike liu). We're grateful that you has decided not to delete our thread, and we really appreciate that and hopefully you won't change your mind

[LuNaR]

Originally posted by Spirit of Honour
First, I still don't understand the need to remove relationship forums. If the topics are becoming too sensitive and personal, everyone can stop replying. If deteriorates into flame war and name calling, moderators can close/delete said threads.

The relationships forum was supposed to be a friendly place to chat, but it turned into a forum that created sex topics, hostilities, and too many fights. Some of these hostilies would affect more than just the relationships forum. The moderators tried what you've said above. Telling people to stop flaming doesn't work all the time. The decision to close the forum was a last resort.

Secondly, off topics. Conversations can (and usually do) develop into different issues. There is only so much to say about anything.

Also the thread starters can ask posters to go back to original topic themselves. No need to babysit everyone.

The issue isn't merely just off topic posts. The main problem is off-topic spam posts. Some of these off topic short posts quickly take over a topic. A reminder to go back to the topic doesn't always work, and also keep in mind a post telling someone to back on topic is also off topic.

Third, non-english threads. These are where we retreated to. Because of those rules you made, these threads are the only place where we can have fun.

These language threads can isolate members from participating. This language barrier also seperates members and creates a clique. Finally, it's hard to moderate these threads because of the language barrier.

If you have any concerns with the moderation or the guidelines, feel free to PM SC or the moderators.

when u first opened the relationship forum wat did u expect in there??? i think sex topic is alrite as long itz not perverted, and hostilities??? are u kiddin me... we dunt even know each other in REAL LIFE so even if there is it duntm atter much... fights happens becuz every1 got different opinion i dunt c anythin wrong wit it.

i dunt c anythin wrong wit language thread even tho i dunt know any of it...

btw how do u become a moderator?

[Yon]

I think a bit off topic is fine, as long as it's not taking over the whole thread.

Above is that hard thing to do? Or.. are we asking too much here to do above?


I DO NOT THINK sex talk is ok. What is not perverted sex talk? I would like to see the example.
Relationship Thread was opened because of making friends each other and talking about life and friendship. But it just went down to the toilet with sex talks.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by Yon
Above is that hard thing to do? Or.. are we asking too much here to do above?

Are you talking to me, granny ?
And about this relationship thread, my opinion is :
If in one aquarium there's one or two contagious fish, and they might affect others as well, should we throw away and burned the aquarium, and let the other fish died too ?
Can we just take that two bad fish, cure them if one healed put it back to the aquarium and if one still contagious, just flush him down the toilet
But that's only my opinion, since it's been closed, i accept sc's decision, no need to bring it up again.

[Yon]

NO Wu Tang.. I merely ask all the members in SPC.


About relationship thread.. well.. your comparision was good.. but didn't explain the whole situation. Would you let your 14 year old daughter talking to some 20 plus year old guy about sex in the forum? and just get rid of Two people will fix the problem? I don't think so. We don't want to go to jail for that. (I am half joking)
If you want to say.. any tv shows will not be different from that.. but well.. try this. SPC is different from TV shows.


My just 2 cents.

Yon.

Yes.. what is done is done.

"What part of "NO" can't you understand?"
- Chris Dowsing

[Spirit of Honour]

Regarding the OFF TOPIC:

I reiterate, the main problem was off topic SPAM. These posts are usually short two way off topic conversations between people in a thread. They are usually short jokes/joke fighting between a small group of people. It's so widespread that it virtually affected almost every topic in General Comments and started to bleed into Open Debate. We've tried other things to stop the spam, including splitting off spam threads. However closing topics because of spam wasn't one of them. Please show us an example where we've closed a topic because of spam.

What if a mod just come by and delete a perfectly good thread just because he/she thinks it's deviate from original topic? Not knowing that the starter isn't even bothered.

What I'm trying to say here all along: please don't take action just because you assume it's a problem. If we want mods to remove or close some threads, trust me, we will let you know.

You don't own a thread you create. You may not be annoyed by the off topic spamming, however that doesn't mean others aren't. Just because you assume it's not a problem, that doesn't mean others feel the same way. Various people have PMed me regarding the off topic spamming. If you have concerns regarding the guidelines, PM SC or the moderators and tell us "I am not bothered by ______, why is it a rule?" We will gladly answer.

If I don't understand sports, and I can't participate in sports talk, is it isolate some members who don't like sports ?

Not understanding sports or wuxia isn't a barrier that prevents you from posting in/reading those forums. You are welcomed to come and ask about the subject or read about it and possibly develop an interest in the subject. You don't have to have a huge knowledge base related to the forum if you want to post there. You still have a choice whether you want to participate in those forums.

With the language threads, someone who doesn't speak that language can't participate in the thread. They don't understand what is being said.

Third, non-english threads. These are where we retreated to. Because of those rules you made, these threads are the only place where we can have fun.

Why do you want to moderate the language threads? You said yourself, others can't understand the posts there. So how can we disturb others?

The messages you posted in defense to leaving the language threads alone are starting to make me think you use another language to break the guidelines. I'm not accusing the members of the language threads of breaking the guidelines, however your messages carry this negative implication. Please explain to me why you need to speak in another language. You are welcomed to create an Indonesian Community Chat topic and speak about the same subjects in English. Why do you need to have this language barrier that prevents people from participating and understanding what you type?

[WuTang_Heroes]

At first I want to end this debate, and SC also agreed to let Indonesian thread live, but since Spirit brought this again...

First :
You said that Not understanding sports or wuxia isn't a barrier that prevents you from posting in/reading those forums
Okay, I can read posts about NCAA Football, for instance, but even though I can read them (since it's in English), I don't understand what are they saying, the idioms, the players, the tactic. Okay, you also said that we can ask about that, and people will respond. You might as well take note that :
We don't prevent people from participating in language thread
If you see, there are others who participate in our threads, other than indonesian, and we'll gladly explain our language to the people who want to learn.

With the language threads, someone who doesn't speak that language can't participate in the thread. They don't understand what is being said.

Now what's the difference between "Academia" language, Sports Language and other language ?
You lose your point there.

The messages you posted in defense to leaving the language threads alone are starting to make me think you use another language to break the guidelines. I'm not accusing the members of the language threads of breaking the guidelines, however your messages carries this negative implication

Are you saying that all of us (in case you haven't notice we had around 33 indonesian people who posted in that thread) break the guidelines ?
If one of us break the guidelines, I assure you that the rest (32 other people) would report that to moderator.

You are welcomed to create an Indonesian Community Chat topic and speak about the same subjects in English. Why do you need to have this language barrier that prevents people from participating and understanding what you type?

Okay,
1. So that our thread won't be flushed into the CAN. Like you said that off topic threads will be removed to the CAN ? You might say that this thread is meaningless and throw it into the CAN, no ?

2. There are some topics that is better discussed in Indonesian. For example we say LOCH as "Sin Tiau Eng Hiong", or "Pendekar Pemanah Rajawali" It's better to explain this thing using Indonesian, where they more familiar with the names.

3. Most of us are Indonesian stay abroad, we rarely use indonesian here, so it's kind of practising again our language. Even Han Solo (malaysian) also can practice malaysian here, we're always welcome.

Now I asked you : Is there anyone who feel annoyed by the presence of this thread ?
If I don't like or don't understand some post in SPC, I just pass that thread, why should I bother ?

Even SC said that the primary problem because of only 2-3 members participate (See SC's first post), the problem is solved.So why you have to bring this up again ?

[Spirit of Honour]

Okay, I can read posts about NCAA Football, for instance, but even though I can read them (since it's in English), I don't understand what are they saying, the idioms, the players, the tactic. Okay, you also said that we can ask about that, and people will respond. You might as well take note that :

You are welcomed to create a topic asking them what the terms are. Like I said before, you don't need a huge knowledge base related to the forum to post. There is no requirement that a topic starter has to know every player in football to talk about it.

Are you saying that all of us (in case you haven't notice we had around 33 indonesian people who posted in that thread) break the guidelines ?
If one of us break the guidelines, I assure you that the rest (32 other people) would report that to moderator.

Please read my message again. I said I'm not accusing the members of the language threads of breaking the guidelines, however your messages carries this negative implication
I'm just interested in why you need to talk in another language.

Another point, I don't think a specific group of members speaking in a secret code should be allowed. As it makes it seem like they are hiding something and it creates a clique. I was concerned that languages could become similar to this scenario, but you addressed it.

Okay,
1. So that our thread won't be flushed into the CAN. Like you said that off topic threads will be removed to the CAN ? You might say that this thread is meaningless and throw it into the CAN, no ?

Ah you make it seem like we are tyrants. You are welcomed to appeal any moderations and you are welcomed to question any moderation made. We wouldn't merge a thread with the can for no reason.

Even SC said that the primary problem because of only 2-3 members participate (See SC's first post), the problem is solved.So why you have to bring this up again ?

I was just interested in why you need to talk in another language and you answered. Another one of my main concerns was the barrier. I am not being hostile so calm down.