Off-topic mania

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by Spirit of Honour

1. You are welcomed to create a topic asking them what the terms are. Like I said before, you don't need a huge knowledge base related to the forum to post. There is no requirement that a topic starter has to know every player in football to talk about it.

2. Please read my message again. I said I'm not accusing the members of the language threads of breaking the guidelines, however your messages carries this negative implication
I'm just interested in why you need to talk in another language.


3.Ah you make it seem like we are tyrants. You are welcomed to appeal any moderations and you are welcomed to question any moderation made. We wouldn't merge a thread with the can for no reason.

4. I was just interested in why you need to talk in another language and you answered. Another one of my main concerns was the barrier. I am not being hostile so calm down.

1. I was just saying this because you said that if I don't know the topic, i'm welcome to create a thread and ask about it. so why can't you do the same for the language thread ?

2. Yes I am aware of that, however your message sounds carries negative implication, so i had to respond for that.

3. My first answer was a joke It is that our topics sometimes shifting, on several pages we're talking about one wuxia movies, the other pages we're talking about indonesian politics, so it's kinda off topic ?

4. About the barrier thing i think i answered already, if anyone wants to join, we welcome whole heartedly. Ever see someone being abused on Mari thread ? (except me, of course )

I am calm down Spirit, I just thought that the problem is solved and you bring it again. If somehow my post insulted you, I apologize

[junny]

Originally posted by WuTang_Heroes
And for Azzy (Azalae) I think he means the same thing with me, a little off topic is okay, as long as it didn't hijack the whole thread.

There, if only the others could understand that, things would be perfectly fine. The mods are ok with a little off topic, but the point is, the threads aren't going a little off topic, they're going way off topic and turning into SPAM. That's why SC is coming down hard on spam. It's very frustrating for people who're trying to have a decent discussion.

[Azalae]

Spirit of Honour, in MKB we constantly jump from one topic to another and not always follow the original. We flood it with the dangerous and infamous off topics spams.

But did you hear any complain? No. Why? Rules and regulations serve community, not the other way around.

Why in Indonesian language? If Chinese is your first language, do you talk in Russian with your friends? Do you call your dad Mr. (surname)?

So you object because it's not in English? I can sue you for unfair treatments with racial prejudice.

[Spirit of Honour]

But did you hear any complain? No. Why? Rules and regulations serve community, not the other way around.

This was one of my concerns. If no one reports an offense, you can get away with it as the moderators don't know what you are saying. If you don't agree with a board policy, you can't use another language to do it without us noticing. You need to talk to SC or moderators about the policy and why you don't agree with it.

So you object because it's not in English? I can sue you for unfair treatments with racial prejudice.

I was objecting because of the barrier. I've never said such a thing before, you assumed that yourself. As for freedom of speech: When you joined the board, you voluntarily gave up some rights in exchange for usage of the forums. Your rights to freedom of speech aren't absolute.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by Spirit of Honour
This was one of my concerns. If no one reports an offense, you can get away with it as the moderators don't know what you are saying. If you don't agree with a board policy, you can't use another language to do it without us noticing. You need to talk to SC or moderators about the policy and why you don't agree with it.
[/B]

But we have 30+ members, I don't think that all of us will just stand there if there's an offense ?
And I don't see any policy on SPCNET to forbid using another language .. I read the forum guidelines, btw.

[ToOn99]

since SC has agreed to leave Mari Kita Bicara, why we should bring it up again.There is no point debating this topic. Calm Down guys!

[Azalae]

This was one of my concerns. If no one reports an offense, you can get away with it as the moderators don't know what you are saying.

No one reported because there was nothing to report.

If you don't agree with a board policy, you can't use another language to do it without us noticing.

What are you implying? That I've been seducing Wutang in Indonesian?

You need to talk to SC or moderators about the policy and why you don't agree with it.

I was. Past tense.

I was objecting because of the barrier.

Wutang already put out our reasonings.

I've never said such a thing before, you assumed that yourself.

Okay aside from the language, what was you found not to your liking?

As for freedom of speech: When you joined the board, you voluntarily gave up some rights in exchange for usage of the forums. Your rights to freedom of speech aren't absolute.

I didn't even say anything about 'freedom of speech'. that 'suing' sentence was a joke. I assume you were too about the last sentences.

I prefer to end this now. But if you still want to continue, point to me the guideline(s) we breached by creating and participating in 'Mari Kita Bicara'.

[TristeCoeur]

Listen to the wise words of President George W Bush:

"There ought to be limits to freedom"



Someone called this forum a "nazi forum" and brought up forums.whirlpool.net.au as a better example of a site well-maintained by one administrator. Since I happen to be member of both forums, I can say that it's a load of crap. This forum is less than reasonably moderated, the interference of the moderators is hardly noticable (not saying that they are slack, but they aren't strict). Whirlpool, on the other hand, has a mature audience, and a larger group of moderators with very strict rules - spam, going off-topic, talking in languages that other people can't understand will be gone in a few seconds. Additionally, it's a highly technical site, which is mostly about broadband and Internet/networking technologies, so strict moderation is required. Simon Wright hand-crafted the site by himself, but he doesn't run it all on his own.

About the language thread, I personally think that it's rude to talk in a place where the majority don't understand your language. There are 4000 people on this forum, only 30 of you participate in the Indonesian thread. Think of it as in real life. Say you're at university in a large group of people and everyone can speak English. You and a few friends start speaking Indonesian, and occasionaly laugh and make jokes. Those may have nothing to do with the other people but because of the language barrier, people may think that you're talking about them, and so it is generally considered rude. Common courtesy says that you should use a language that the majority of people around you understand. I'm a Viet and I prefer to speak Viet to my fellow Viets at uni, but if there are other people around, even we outnumber them, I will speak English so that everyone can understand. By the way, I don't speak Indonesian so I don't know about your threads, but the Let's Talk Viet threads contain lots of strong languages.

Personally I can't stand the spam in various forums on Spcnet in recent weeks, and I don't even have to deal with them like the mods do. You usually have a small group of members who just like to "have fun". They jump into any thread they see, start with a few jokes or "witty" comments, then use the thread to chat to each other. It is very annoying and extremely rude to other participants.

This is not directly related to the issue, but when a few members on my frequently visit forum (and I'm also a moderator there) Overclockers Australia ask the administrator if he can implement a Quick Reply function, they got this: "We don't want quick replies, we want considerate replies" Oh and by the way, on Whirlpool.net.au, members are required to reread and recheck for grammatical and spelling errors before they are allowed to post a thread. On an Internet forum, look, age, sex, social position, occupation etc. count for nothing, unlike in real life. Your posts and your knowledge are the only ways to communicate with others. You should treat them a little more seriously. Chatting is for IRC, ICQ, MSN,. Yahoo, not a discussion forum

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by TristeCoeur

Someone called this forum a "nazi forum"

Really? We must be doing *something* right, then.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Please, don't start this over again

As I was saying : We only talk indonesian in our own language thread. If someone comes and ask questions, we'll answer it in english.
Using your analogy : It's the same if you're hanging out with your viet friends and someone come and talk to you, you instantly change the convo into english, right ? Same here.
We didn't talk indonesian in other threads and start conversation using indonesian. So please differentiate.

[TristeCoeur]

We didn't talk indonesian in other threads and start conversation using indonesian. So please differentiate.

I can find examples, but I really don't care much about that.

Using your analogy : It's the same if you're hanging out with your viet friends and someone come and talk to you, you instantly change the convo into english, right ? Same here.

IMO the main differences are:

- This is NOT a public forum, and you don't own the space to talk or do whatever you want. This will be decided by Spcnet so I won't talk about this again

- You don't have any privacy on an open (note: it's not the same as public) forum, where everyone can read your posts. You can't just hide your posts or something like that when someone else comes around, like in real life when you are talking to your friends and you can stop when other people pass by (if you don't want them to hear your conversation). Now for me it doesn't matter, I have never bothered to read your threads. I'm not accusing you of anything, but since some people here have spoken, it seems that other people may think that you can use these threads to violate forum rules, to talk behind other people's backs, especially those who dislike you, and vice versa.

I have no right to stop you from doing anything, it's not my duty. Just simply voicing my opinion.

[eeyore]

Originally posted by ToOn99
since SC has agreed to leave Mari Kita Bicara, why we should bring it up again.There is no point debating this topic. Calm Down guys!

I agree with Toon, why would we talk about this again when SC already agree to leave MKB?

Why do it's become a problem now? we already on thread no 6.

don't answer me, it's a rethorical question.

[Azalae]

I was the one who wrote 'nazi-forum'. I was emotional apologize if that word offend anyone.

TristeCoeur, in whirlpool they don't simply close threads do they? But delete the posts. Yes they are stricter and that serves my comparison purpose even further. Even there, where the rules are stricter, they remove the offensive posts. Not simply closing threads.

I understand that some threads need to be closed. Only that moderators validate complains first. Also off-topics are not always 'destructive'. I am not defending spams.

Language thread. We welcome anyone who would join us in MKB. And we had always replied to them in English. You can check past instances.

And BTW too, we don't use strong languages there or sexual references. The last topics were about holidays planning, food we'd like to eat back in Indonesia, and several members birthdays.

[Azalae]

TristeCoeur you debate for the sake of it.

Why did I let myself be dragged into this?

I'll stop now.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by TristeCoeur
- This is NOT a public forum, and you don't own the space to talk or do whatever you want. This will be decided by Spcnet so I won't talk about this again

- You don't have any privacy on an open (note: it's not the same as public) forum, where everyone can read your posts. You can't just hide your posts or something like that when someone else comes around, like in real life when you are talking to your friends and you can stop when other people pass by (if you don't want them to hear your conversation). Now for me it doesn't matter, I have never bothered to read your threads. I'm not accusing you of anything, but since some people here have spoken, it seems that other people may think that you can use these threads to violate forum rules, to talk behind other people's backs, especially those who dislike you, and vice versa.

sure I also just voicing my opinion
If you're hanging out in Library, McDonalds , or some public places and talk with your own language, is this considered rude ? people also might hear you talking right, but are they care ?
Some people have spoken ? so far i only count one person Spirit (and he only assume) that we might spoken behind people back.

This is only my opinion. No offence intended, hope you understand

[TristeCoeur]

Originally posted by Azalae
TristeCoeur you debate for the sake of it.

Why did I let myself be dragged into this?

I'll stop now.

Sorry I dragged your highness into a debate of lowly peasants.

Of course I debate for the sake of it. This is a forum after all.

I posted because I'm selfish. I want to maintain the high quality of threads, that once existed here, for my own good. Knowledge is what keeps me entertained.

[Spirit of Honour]

We didn't talk indonesian in other threads and start conversation using indonesian. So please differentiate.

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...&threadid=4137

This thread was originally in General Comments and then I moved it to Gaming/Anime. Azalae responded in English and Indonesian.

Some people have spoken ? so far i only count one person Spirit (and he only assume) that we might spoken behind people back.


I haven't accused anyone of violating the guidelines, I just brought up that it is a possibility people could be because there is a language barrier. If one of my posts implied that someone in the MKB thread violated a guideline, it wasn't intentional. It could be an issue like it is an issue in the Viet thread as Triste has pointed out. However, I will take your word that there are no violations.

As I said before, I was curious why you wanted to speak in another language because the barrier can be an issue.

[WuTang_Heroes]

Originally posted by Spirit of Honour
We didn't talk indonesian in other threads and start conversation using indonesian. So please differentiate.

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...&threadid=4137

This thread was originally in General Comments and then I moved it to Gaming/Anime.

Okay, so did anybody respond to that post using indonesian also, and did it continue to conversation ? Azalae responded with english, right ?
He merely can't speak english well, so he posted using english and indonesia.
Toon already PMed the person to come to MKB instead, if he can't speak english very well, we will help him to post the question in English. See ! Now we got another reason why we should speak indonesia Even many of Indonesian youngster have bad english, so who will help them ?
We discussed this person in MKB thread, it's there you can look it for yourself if you don't believe me

It's here : click here

[ToOn99]

Originally posted by Spirit of Honour
We didn't talk indonesian in other threads and start conversation using indonesian. So please differentiate.

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...&threadid=4137

This thread was originally in General Comments and then I moved it to Gaming/Anime.

Some people have spoken ? so far i only count one person Spirit (and he only assume) that we might spoken behind people back.


I haven't assumed anything. I haven't accused anyone of violating the guidelines, I just brought up that it is a possibility people could be because there is a language barrier. It could be an issue like it is an issue in the Viet thread as Triste has pointed out. However, I will take your word that there are no violations.

As I said before, I was curious why you wanted to speak in another language because the barrier can be an issue.

if this situation was happened because of that, Please forgive him, I think he only misunderstood considering he is only a new member.( u can see his posting number = 6 ). So far he didnt make any new spam right. Once again please forgive him.

[Mike Liu]

This is getting kinda ridiculous. First SPCNET herself has already made up her mind. Why are we still trying to harp on this issue?

Second, it strikes me as funny, that a wuxia site, one that promotes and talks about NON-ENGLISH movies and tv shows, should be mandated to be English only. In case one hasn't noticed, this site ain't similar to any other site. This is a truly multi-lingual community. Mandarin, Taiwanese, Singaporian, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, and English are just some of the languages/cultures this site caters to. If I'm the admin I'd be wondering, just exactly who am I alienating if I force the site to 100% English? Perhaps my own core audience?

I mean, if the non-English threads started popping up everywhere, then we might have a problem. As it stands now they're only posting in their own threads.

Besides, I've popped in the various language forums myself at times and have learned quite a few words, like botak for example. I don't see it as a bad thing... but that's just my opinion.