Legendary Book of Sun-Moon Swordplay

[tweety365]

Tweety, have you seen this MV, featuring Wallace Chung, Vincent Jiao, Liu Yi Fei, and Liu Shi Shi?
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/ZFRxmnPbwho/

Thanks for the link, Mel. Two of my fav men in 1 vid . Quality, editing, and effects are awesome. I don't much care for LYF and LSS, but I'm keeping it just for my men

I don't go on tudou that often since searching in English is not very productive. Nothing shows up because everything is in Chinese. A real pity because there are lots of well made mvs. Same problem with Youtube, the really good mvs are titled in Chinese to avoid being deleted due to copyright issues, like my mv, which isn't that great, but I put a whole lot of time and effort into making the darn thing. Upload time too forever because back then I had dsl . So if I run across a good vid, I download right away . It is a lose-lose situation for both the creators and fans.

[tweety365]

Btw, despite not being fond of Selena and Raymond as a pair, I found a very cool mv of them from Face to Fate. If only Tavia and Selena switched roles, it would have been PERFECT!!! Since these are TVB clips, expect it be taken down soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzWkLgM696c

[Melanie]

Hey Mel, i thought it mentioned at the end of the last chapter that the Thousand Snake Black Rose Clan was killing members of the Heavenly Crane Clan! So forcing Sit Chung Nam to focus his attention on Black Rose might actually being an excellent way of killing two birds with one stone. In a way, it is not truly dishonourable since both clans pose a big threat to the Heavenly Crane Clan's existence. It is a common technique used in war when there are three opposing armies, and even in today's commerce world.

Oh, I'm not disputing that Ling Dong and the orthodox clans' plan to pit the Floating Cloud Sect against the Thousand Snake Black Rose Clan is brilliant. "To fight a demon, one must unleash another demon upon it." I believe those were my words in the chapter (Chapter 83) prior to the most recent one. However, since we are debating Ling Dong's character, all I'm saying is that this plan does not make Ling Dong very honorable, as he also likes Black Rose but is willing to sacrifice her to Sit Chung Nam. Ling Dong is essentially serving her up as a sacrificial lamb to a dangerous bandit, who may rape and then kill her. Several chapters prior, I've mentioned that Black Rose is different from Poison Snake. The elder sister kills, while the younger sister heals. (My updates are so far apart that probably no one remembers this. ) Therefore, as a healer, Black Rose really should have been given the benefit of the doubt. What gives the orthodox clans and Ling Dong the right to determine that Black Rose's life is any less valuable than theirs? I think we (you, I, and tweety) all agree that Ling Dong and the orthodox clans' methods are questionable and underhanded but ingenious from a military tactical standpoint.

By the way, I never thought Ling Dong would garner so much debate. Thanks for making him so interesting, tweety and charbydis!

I agree with "how can there be a home without a country?" If everyone was just concerned about their own future and stability, then society would be in chaos. It takes a strong and determined man to put his duty to society ahead of everything else in his life and I admire them for that. It might be cruel to those he loves, but if it will bring about long-lasting peace and security that will benefit a lot of people, then maybe it might be worth it.

No doubt, a man who is noble enough to place his country's needs above personal needs is admirable. But there should be a limit. I never meant to imply that a man should just sit around, smothering his wife and ignoring everything else. It is heroic to fight for the better of the country and its citizens, but not to extent of sacrificing one's own family and loved ones. What gives a man the right to determine that his loved ones' lives are less valuable and less worthy of saving than the lives of other citizens out there? I think it all comes down to different views. There is no correct answer in this debate of "country vs loved one," only one which fits most with one's priorities.

I find a man totally devoted a woman scary and suffocating.

I find this type of man suffocating and scary, too!

There must be more in a man's life - personal ambition and duty so it can incraese the depth of his perception and ciew. The thought of a man who just wants to stay at home with hsi wife or calls her non-stop every 5 minutes to check if she is okay is horrifying.

I completely agree. But a man can consider his wife as his top priority and still have other ambitions and interests in his life. Just because he thinks of her safety first when the going gets tough doesn't make him unambitious and narrow-minded.

I am not saying that a man must treat his wife coldy as if she was invisible. I still expect him to love and cherish her but when the important time to decide whether home or country, should he choose to sacrifice his blissful homelife to save society, or should he hide with his wife while everyone around him burns? It all depends on your values and conscience.

Hmm, I think we're starting to diverge into two different topics in our discussion. Maybe I got lost within all the long posts, but I thought the discussion was about whether it was "heroic" to sacrifice a loved one (meaning letting that loved one die) for the better of the country? I don't think a man should hide like a coward with his wife while everyone around him burns. If he wants to risk his own safety to help the burning victims, then he is very brave and heroic. But if he wants to sacrifice his wife's life so he can save the people burning around him, then he's more horrific than the guy who set the fire in the first place.

I guess the best example to compare should be Yeung Gor vs Gwok Jing. Yeung Gor chose to reside with Little Dragon Girl while Gwok Jing decided to fight til death for Sheung Yeung City. What is the right choice? I never really agreed with Yeung Gor on this matter while I really respected Gwok Jing for his determination. It is a hard concept to grasp now but in the olden days, a man's honour to his society was really emphasised on and respected. I think in Ling Dong's case, I tend to see a bit of that man's honour in him.

Strange that you bring up this analogy. I've always found Yeung Gor annoying, but his one redeeming quality is his willingness to put Little Dragon Girl's wishes and well-being above all else, including country. Kwok Jing, while undeniably heroic to his country, fails as a husband and father, because he never will put family first ahead of country. If given a choice, he will choose country and let his family die. Such a man is very lofty and admirable to the millions of citizens he protects, but I would never want such a man as my husband. He can be someone else's husband. I am just a simple woman, one who wants a nice man whom I can count on. He should certainly help others if he is able to, but if he needs to let me die in order to help others, then the selfish part of me wants him to think of me first. I hope I don't come off sounding incredibly despicable for saying this. I'm really a nice person who has the heart of a good samaritan, so please don't boycott my story because of this discussion of "loved one vs country."

My childhood dream lovers were Cao Cao and OYF! What do you expect my view about men to be?

And my most beloved childhood character was Pooh Bear. Still is.

Thanks for the link, Mel. Two of my fav men in 1 vid. Quality, editing, and effects are awesome. I don't much care for LYF and LSS, but I'm keeping it just for my men

I don't go on tudou that often since searching in English is not very productive. Nothing shows up because everything is in Chinese. A real pity because there are lots of well made mvs. Same problem with Youtube, the really good mvs are titled in Chinese to avoid being deleted due to copyright issues, like my mv, which isn't that great, but I put a whole lot of time and effort into making the darn thing. Upload time too forever because back then I had dsl. So if I run across a good vid, I download right away. It is a lose-lose situation for both the creators and fans.

Yeah, I figure you would like that MV because of Wallace Chung and Vincent Jiao. Don't worry, I will post every cool Wallace and Vincent MV I can find here (or in the Wallace Chung thread) so you can download it!

I haven't seen LYF act before, so I have no comment about her other than she's pretty. I like LSS because of her role as Mu Nianci in LOCH 2008 with Yuan Hong as Yang Kang. She's pretty but not the prettiest actress out there and her acting skills were pretty raw back then, but she grew on me as I watched LOCH.

Yeah, I remember your MV. It was pretty cool and you had a few admirers of your MV posting comments. Too bad it was taken down by youtube. I don't know why TVB just can't consider it free publicity. It's not like MV's show the entire series. They just show clips. In fact, I will usually start watching a series if a particular MV is especially well-made and interesting. You could say, if it weren't for the MV's, I would not have bought the dvd of the series. Hence, the MV's are actually increasing the production company's business.

Btw, despite not being fond of Selena and Raymond as a pair, I found a very cool mv of them from Face to Fate. If only Tavia and Selena switched roles, it would have been PERFECT!!! Since these are TVB clips, expect it be taken down soon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzWkLgM696c

Thanks for the MV link, tweety! As you probably already know from the Ray and Selena characters in my story, I like this couple. I haven't seen a series where Tavia and Ray play a couple, so I am neutral about them as a romantic pair.

[charbydis]

Hmm, I think we're starting to diverge into two different topics in our discussion. Maybe I got lost within all the long posts, but I thought the discussion was about whether it was "heroic" to sacrifice a loved one (meaning letting that loved one die) for the better of the country? I don't think a man should hide like a coward with his wife while everyone around him burns. If he wants to risk his own safety to help the burning victims, then he is very brave and heroic. But if he wants to sacrifice his wife's life so he can save the people burning around him, then he's more horrific than the guy who set the fire in the first place.

Strange that you bring up this analogy. I've always found Yeung Gor annoying, but his one redeeming quality is his willingness to put Little Dragon Girl's wishes and well-being above all else, including country. Kwok Jing, while undeniably heroic to his country, fails as a husband and father, because he never will put family first ahead of country. If given a choice, he will choose country and let his family die. Such a man is very lofty and admirable to the millions of citizens he protects, but I would never want such a man as my husband. He can be someone else's husband. I am just a simple woman, one who wants a nice man whom I can count on. He should certainly help others if he is able to, but if he needs to let me die in order to help others, then the selfish part of me wants him to think of me first. I hope I don't come off sounding incredibly despicable for saying this. I'm really a nice person who has the heart of a good samaritan, so please don't boycott my story because of this discussion of "loved one vs country."

Hmmmm. As for whether Ling Dong and the orthodox clan members having the right to decide Black Rose's fate, you have to remember that this is ancient times. We cannot judge the values of ancient honour code using today's more liberated values and views of life. Back then, black was black and white was white. If sacrificing one evil member (we know but the people don't know that Black Rose was healing people instead of poisoning them) could save thousands of orthodox pillars of society, then it is worth it. This is what they think at the time. Now, we have human rights and equality rights but back then, the majority vote wins. I am not condoning their behaviour in letting a woman be raped to save them, but I accept their rationale because of their situation and education. Worse of all, men ruled the ancient times and women were disposable objects. So it sucks to be a woman in the ancient times.

As for home vs country, I think it all comes down to personal priority. We will never agree on this because we just see things in a different way. I have never minded a husband who would put his country before me - my ideal husband is Kiu Fung so you get what I mean. Let's stop here before we kill each other and you get going with updating! BTW, I will be including a home vs country theme in my fanfic so tune in if you wnat to see me rant.

But hey, you could have a twist where Ling Dong uses Black Rose to distract Sit Chung Nam and then beat the living daylights out of him from behind before he can lay a hand on Black Rose. He can get rid of a loyal rival and an enemy so he gets promoted, and win the girl as well. Now that is a great tactic.

[tweety365]

Worse of all, men ruled the ancient times and women were disposable objects. So it sucks to be a woman in the ancient times.

It sucks to be women living in 3rd world countries today. I was just reading an article regarding the horrid treatments of women in Libya. Apparently raped victims are killed by the members of their families/communities for being dishonored. I can rant and rave all day until I turn blue, but unfortunately, it won't make much difference

charbydis, I've been meaning to catch up on your fanfic, but I'm very behind . But it is also a good thing for me because when I have the time to catch up, it will be a longer read .

Don't give Mel any more ideas for prolonging the side story. Otherwise, she will be trapped in her "time travel" .

[Melanie]

Hmmmm. As for whether Ling Dong and the orthodox clan members having the right to decide Black Rose's fate, you have to remember that this is ancient times. We cannot judge the values of ancient honour code using today's more liberated values and views of life. Back then, black was black and white was white. If sacrificing one evil member (we know but the people don't know that Black Rose was healing people instead of poisoning them) could save thousands of orthodox pillars of society, then it is worth it. This is what they think at the time. Now, we have human rights and equality rights but back then, the majority vote wins. I am not condoning their behaviour in letting a woman be raped to save them, but I accept their rationale because of their situation and education. Worse of all, men ruled the ancient times and women were disposable objects. So it sucks to be a woman in the ancient times.

Take that, you wuxia men, for treating women like commodities! You know, all of a sudden, I'm ticked off at Ling Dong AND Sit Chung Nam AND every other guy in the story, so I'm going to end the story by killing all the guys, leaving only the women.

Let's stop here before we kill each other and you get going with updating! BTW, I will be including a home vs country theme in my fanfic so tune in if you wnat to see me rant.

Yes, I agree we have beaten this topic to a pulp and should stop here. But actually, I would never kill you, charbydis, because you're my friend who provides me with all the celebrity gossip; I would just cripple Ling Dong. :

But hey, you could have a twist where Ling Dong uses Black Rose to distract Sit Chung Nam and then beat the living daylights out of him from behind before he can lay a hand on Black Rose. He can get rid of a loyal rival and an enemy so he gets promoted, and win the girl as well. Now that is a great tactic.

Ha! How do you come up with these crazy ideas? I am actually thinking of having Black Rose spray both men with her lethal powder and then beat the living daylights out of both of them for treating her like an object to be traded and lusted after.

[Melanie]

It sucks to be women living in 3rd world countries today. I was just reading an article regarding the horrid treatments of women in Libya. Apparently raped victims are killed by the members of their families/communities for being dishonored. I can rant and rave all day until I turn blue, but unfortunately, it won't make much difference

I've read that story, too. It's highly disturbing. There was also a TIME magazine article I read about a woman in Afghanistan getting her nose cut off by her husband and her husband's family because she tried to run away because they were physically abusing her.

Don't give Mel any more ideas for prolonging the side story. Otherwise, she will be trapped in her "time travel" .

You don't want more of Chung Nam and Black Rose, tweety? I'll try to keep their screen time short and sweet, but I do need adequate story time to make their story arc meaningful to the rest of the plot.

[tweety365]

I haven't seen LYF act before, so I have no comment about her other than she's pretty. I like LSS because of her role as Mu Nianci in LOCH 2008 with Yuan Hong as Yang Kang. She's pretty but not the prettiest actress out there and her acting skills were pretty raw back then, but she grew on me as I watched LOCH.

I find LYF very pretty from certain angles, especially her profiles. Full face, she often looks plain. LSS is only pretty, but she is acting in lots of series lately with a rising popularity. Both need lots of work to improve their acting. I'm not impressed with what I've seen of them so far, hence I'm indifferent.

Regarding youtube, it's a real pity that tv stations are cracking down on copyrighted materials. All they manage to do is step on fans trying to spread the love for the productions. With all these websites offering free streaming of movies, tv networks are fighting a losing war.

[tweety365]

You don't want more of Chung Nam and Black Rose, tweety? I'll try to keep their screen time short and sweet, but I do need adequate story time to make their story arc meaningful to the rest of the plot.

Girl, how can you even think that?! If I have my way, I want you to prolong this side story for as long as possible . However, I know you want to wrap up this story. I am thinking on your behalf and willing to sacrifice more screen time of my fav couple

[Melanie]

Girl, how can you even think that?! If I have my way, I want you to prolong this side story for as long as possible . However, I know you want to wrap up this story. I am thinking on your behalf and willing to sacrifice more screen time of my fav couple

Tweety is sacrificing her personal interest for the greater good of the reader community.

[charbydis]

It sucks to be women living in 3rd world countries today. I was just reading an article regarding the horrid treatments of women in Libya. Apparently raped victims are killed by the members of their families/communities for being dishonored. I can rant and rave all day until I turn blue, but unfortunately, it won't make much difference

Wait til you read what happens in Congo. I had nightmares after reading up the woman rights brochure.

charbydis, I've been meaning to catch up on your fanfic, but I'm very behind . But it is also a good thing for me because when I have the time to catch up, it will be a longer read .

No one likes my story! I'm going to run off and castrate some characters to vent my frustration!

Don't give Mel any more ideas for prolonging the side story. Otherwise, she will be trapped in her "time travel" .

Mel can write a separate story about Black Rose and Sit Chung Name as her second Book.

[Melanie]

No one likes my story! I'm going to run off and castrate some characters to vent my frustration!

Just leave Eddie Kwan out of your evil plans!

Mel can write a separate story about Black Rose and Sit Chung Name as her second Book.

Hmmm, maybe. If there is enough interest in them...

[charbydis]

Take that, you wuxia men, for treating women like commodities! You know, all of a sudden, I'm ticked off at Ling Dong AND Sit Chung Nam AND every other guy in the story, so I'm going to end the story by killing all the guys, leaving only the women.

Oh dear, Tweety! Look what we have done!

Yes, I agree we have beaten this topic to a pulp and should stop here. But actually, I would never kill you, charbydis, because you're my friend who provides me with all the celebrity gossip; I would just cripple Ling Dong. :

I will just go nurse Ling Dong back to health then go and torture Kenneth to death in my fanfic!

Ha! How do you come up with these crazy ideas? I am actually thinking of having Black Rose spray both men with her lethal powder and then beat the living daylights out of both of them for treating her like an object to be traded and lusted after.

I wonder what all your male readers will feel reading this! (rushing of to buy baseball bats and helmets and then barricading themselves in their houses in case Melanie and Charbydis go after them! )

[charbydis]

Just leave Eddie Kwan out of your evil plans!

I just finished a scene about torturing Eddie Kwan last night! Wait and enjoy!

[Melanie]

Oh dear, Tweety! Look what we have done!

Yes, that's right! You two have unleashed the lioness from her lair and she is now determined to kill all the male characters! I don't care if he's Yik Lun or Blue Executioner or Sit Chung Nam or Yeung Lap Chun or Cheng Sai Chung or Koo Yat Fei! They're all going to die! Maybe I'll leave Benny Chan's Koo Yat Keung alive just to annoy some readers. : But the rest have to die! There will be NO happy couple at the end! NONE!

I will just go nurse Ling Dong back to health then go and torture Kenneth to death in my fanfic!

I just finished a scene about torturing Eddie Kwan last night! Wait and enjoy!

Why you so mean?

I wonder what all your male readers will feel reading this! (rushing of to buy baseball bats and helmets and then barricading themselves in their houses in case Melanie and Charbydis go after them! )

It's time that the women in wuxia stand up for their rights and take male concubines! Those who try to rebel will get the living daylights beaten out of them! Yay! High-five, girls! It's awesome to be part of a lynch mob!

[charbydis]

Yes, that's right! You two have unleashed the lioness from her lair and she is now determined to kill all the male characters! I don't care if he's Yik Lun or Blue Executioner or Sit Chung Nam or Yeung Lap Chun or Cheng Sai Chung or Koo Yat Fei! They're all going to die! Maybe I'll leave Benny Chan's Koo Yat Keung alive just to annoy some readers. : But the rest have to die! There will be NO happy couple at the end! NONE!

Would someone pls lock her up?

Why you so mean?

You wait for a few more chapters of my fanfic and I think you would spew blood!

It's time that the women in wuxia stand up for their rights and take male concubines! Those who try to rebel will get the living daylights beaten out of them! Yay! High-five, girls! It's awesome to be part of a lynch mob!

Who wants male concubines?

[Melanie]

Would someone pls lock her up?

I can't be locked up! I'M THE AUTHOR! : I roam wherever I please in the land of my story! I kill whichever character I want! I'm invincible! : I'm going to kill all the male characters! DIE, DIE, DIE!

I've just discovered that I like using the emoticon.

Who wants male concubines?

You don't want to be surrounded by a bevy of hot men? I know tweety wouldn't mind having Wallace Chung on one arm and Vincent Jiao on the other arm.

Ok, how about male slaves to do your laundry, cooking, and cleaning, while you just sit around and castrate characters in your story?

[charbydis]

I can't be locked up! I'M THE AUTHOR! : I roam wherever I please in the land of my story! I kill whichever character I want! I'm invincible! : I'm going to kill all the male characters! DIE, DIE, DIE!

I've just discovered that I like using the emoticon.

Try this then:

You don't want to be surrounded by a bevy of hot men? I know tweety wouldn't mind having Wallace Chung on one arm and Vincent Jiao on the other arm. Ok, how about male slaves to do your laundry, cooking, and cleaning, while you just sit around and castrate characters in your story?

Nope. Only want puppies!

[Melanie]

Try this then:

Whoa! I find that image so exciting! I can totally see myself staring at that image the whole night rather than updating my story!

Nope. Only want puppies!

I want puppies, too! I like Maltese puppies. They look so cute! But I am not home often enough to give a puppy the attention and love it deserves. So I think it would be unfair of me to get a puppy and then just abandon it at home. I think if I do get a doggie, I would opt to bring home a dog from the animal shelter rather than buy a puppy. Those shelter dogs need a home more than anything. It makes me tearful each time I think about abandoned pets, left to starve and fend for themselves. I know there are circumstances that sometimes force a family to abandon their pet, but the pet is family, too! Imagine how confused and scared your pet would be.

[charbydis]

I want puppies, too! I like Maltese puppies. They look so cute! But I am not home often enough to give a puppy the attention and love it deserves. So I think it would be unfair of me to get a puppy and then just abandon it at home. I think if I do get a doggie, I would opt to bring home a dog from the animal shelter rather than buy a puppy. Those shelter dogs need a home more than anything. It makes me tearful each time I think about abandoned pets, left to starve and fend for themselves.

I have two pomeranians at home! Have to feed them now! TTYL! Bye! :bye: