DY's 6MSJ vs YD's 1YZ

[superboy]

XF was just thinking about how he can beat that skill, not that he knew that he wouldn't be able to counter or defeat it. It only made him doubt, that's all. I think 6MSJ can probably cut through palm strikes of XF, but it won't be that useful if the palm blast cover an area of over a feet in width.

[Meh]

I don't want to go into the details of 6MSJ(besides, it's been too long since I've read DGSD) since it would take too long. But a good judge of its power was how Qiao Feng judged it right after Duan Yu showed him during their first meeting. QF was quite afraid of it's power at the time, and had no confidence against Duan ZhengHeng before he found out that DZH did not know 6MSJ.

The basic idea of why 6MSJ is more powerful than other 'projected attacks' is that it's a SWORD. Which means it's unblockable and pierces through the body if not evaded. That's why people liken it to a gun. All other projected attacks(which even lesser fighters like Song YuanQiao demonstrated he could do in HSDS) can be withstood given enough inner power.

[TristeCoeur]

If you watch the fingers, you'll be able to tell where the blade is.

Riiiiight. What is faster and more unpredictable, the finger or the arm/palm ? Duan Yu could just sit there and move his fingers by a couple cm to target everyone on Shaolin...

Of course, it's much more difficult with DY since DY has his stupidly good lightness kungfu that doesn't require any practice at all.

Riiiiight. Duan Yu spent years and years learning I Ching, the book which LBWB was based on. After he got that manual, he spent days practicing it, and once he got the inner power, it became very easy for him to use.

As for 6MSJ, there are two examples that I would like to use:

1: using a needle to pierce through the elephants skin. A baseball bat can hit with much more power than that needle, but the needle will hurt the elephant, the baseball bat will not.

2: Zhang Wu Ji's fight against the 3 Messengers from Persians. Zhang Wu Ji's 9 Yang Shen Gong was way more powerful than all of these messengers combined. However, these messengers had a special yin inner power that is as thin as a needle and could penetrate easily through ZWJ's 9 Yang shield, although its power isn't as high.

If a "needle-like" projected attack could do that much damage, imagine a sword-like projected attack (remember that sword is the King of all weapons - in wuxia anyway) with an incredible amount of energy powering it.

[Xiao Feng]

I agree with Tris. No disrespect given to Chrono on his comments, let me clear something first...have a look at my username, I absolutely idolised XF and yet here I am championing 6MSJ.

The arguments you are giving is taken into comparison by isolating the plus points of 6MSJ, which is wrong. Oh sure you can argue that someone like XF can hit from even longer distance compared to 6MSJ, sure he can look at the "fingers" of the attacker and try to dodge not to mention having to stay away far enough. Ok then, which is easier to read, a hand or arm movement or the damn "fingers"? Get my drift? Sure you could dodge right since like you said 6MSJ reaches "only" a few metres (how few?), let me ask you this then....does those who practise XL18Z usually fight from distance or izzit a close combat skill? Let me explain in case you don't understand, XL18Z is not a long distance attacking skill, of course someone like XF (and GJ or someother great fighters) can attack from distance (by putting considerable force into the strike so as to extend the strike beyond the arm) with it but thats just him. The emphasis or the nature of XL18Z is not to attack from distance. Whereas the very nature of 6MSJ is its distance, any strike has better range than any other skill...are you getting me here? Thats what I'm comparing, don't take the fighters into context...just compare the skills in essence. The simplicity of its execution (from them damn fingers instead of say swing your f@#$king left arm in an arc and then striking with your right) enables speed, precision and unlimited variability (advantages of a sword without the sword). And it being a concentrated projection of pure Qi (not merely sustaining blades) it has unimaginable penetration. And you were arguing about 6MSJ having to use up a lot of Qi? Lets think about it, letting the Qi flow through your fingers as compared to loading up a lot of Qi into a palm strike. Which one is more efficient in its use of energy? Seriously, 6MSJ is all about finesse and elegance and is definitely not a energy draining skill like you said. And nobody is telling you to simply "turn on" the blades throughout a fight, you would only "turn it on" when you are striking, same as any.

To summarise that pile of crap I just wrote, it is the essence and traits of the skill that makes it unmatched. Speed, Penetration, Range (yes, yes...XF can hit it farther...thats not my point), Simplicity and Finesse. Comparing XL18Z with 6MSJ is like comparing a bludgeoning weapon like a club or hammer to a sword or rapier.

I'm waiting for the oncoming rush of arguments

[QF]

The main advantage that 6MSJ have over Yi Yang is that it is a long distance attack that is completely qi based. Duan Yu, with his 6MSJ, can pretty much summon his qi anywhere he wants, and twitch your fingers VERY FAST, and this invisible qi based sword will come out of his fingers. DOn't forget Duan Yu can do all this effortlessly. Now, it was never shown anywhere in the novel that 1 deng can attack from a long distance attack. 1 Yang is always a skill that is needed to fight close range in the world of LOCH. THe only close thing that I've seen is the last fight against JLFW. However, they only used wind to push eachother apart. ANd wind is not good enough to injure a martial art master.

If they both start out from a distance, all Yi Deng can do is just dodge. He can't get close to Duan Yu at all. He can't block 6MSJ. If he did, he would have holes in his arms, or it will push him back. He wouldn't be able to get close enought o counter attack. SOoner or later, he will be worn down. And yes, DY can use all SIX at the same time. He did it before.

[TristeCoeur]

The main advantage that 6MSJ have over Yi Yang is that it is a long distance attack that is completely qi based. Duan Yu, with his 6MSJ, can pretty much summon his qi anywhere he wants, and twitch your fingers VERY FAST, and this invisible qi based sword will come out of his fingers. DOn't forget Duan Yu can do all this effortlessly. Now, it was never shown anywhere in the novel that 1 deng can attack from a long distance attack. 1 Yang is always a skill that is needed to fight close range in the world of LOCH. THe only close thing that I've seen is the last fight against JLFW. However, they only used wind to push eachother apart. ANd wind is not good enough to injure a martial art master.

Hillarious What do you think they did ? Fanning each other ? or farting ?

1 Yang Finger is based on inner energy... heck show me one advanced martial art that isn't... It can be used as a long distance attack, as shown by Yi Deng, Duan Zheng Ming, Duan Zheng Chuan, Duan Yan Qing.

It is clearly explained in the novel (via the old monk of the Celestial Dragon Temple) that 6MSJ is based on 1 Yang Finger, but is more "optimised" and has more variations (even the numbers in the names suggest that). In fact it uses 1 Yang Finger as the invisible qi-sword, that is forced through 6 different meridians on the hand: 3 Yin and 3 Yang...gotta stop, I'm too tempted to translate the whole thing

[Dirt]

The question is who is the better fighter, not which is the better skill. By what you all say, Xian Tian Gong should be stronger than Xiang Lung Shi Ba Zhang, Yi Yang Zhi, Ha Ma Gong and every kung fu that East Heretic uses.

[superboy]

Xian Tian Gong is only a type of internal energy cultivation, not technique. And WCY can beat the Greats that time only because he were over 30 years older than they are that time. Him comparing to the Greats at the end of ROCH are still a mystery. WCY taught YD Xian Tian Gong and he didn't surpass the rest of the other Greats. Therefore, it's a good internal cultivation, but fail if you're saying it is superior to the ones of H7G, OYF, HYS uses.

[Dirt]

Originally posted by Superboy
Xian Tian Gong is only a type of internal energy cultivation, not technique. And WCY can beat the Greats that time only because he were over 30 years older than they are that time. Him comparing to the Greats at the end of ROCH are still a mystery. WCY taught YD Xian Tian Gong and he didn't surpass the rest of the other Greats. Therefore, it's a good internal cultivation, but fail if you're saying it is superior to the ones of H7G, OYF, HYS uses.

So, it is more the practitionar and not the kung fu, yes?

[superboy]

There are more advance arts than others, but I guess for this case yes, it depends on the practicer. WCY that time had decades more training than the other Greats.

[Xiao Feng]

Originally posted by Dirt
The question is who is the better fighter, not which is the better skill. By what you all say, Xian Tian Gong should be stronger than Xiang Lung Shi Ba Zhang, Yi Yang Zhi, Ha Ma Gong and every kung fu that East Heretic uses.

What has this got to do with the topic?

[superboy]

So far most of you think that DY will beat YD right?

[superboy]

Oh yeah, anyone know how bad/deep will a slash from 6MSJ be?

[Xiao Feng]

Originally posted by superboy
Oh yeah, anyone know how bad/deep will a slash from 6MSJ be?

Don't think there will be a physical gash/slash. Same way a high inner strengh strike will mess up your innards but doesn't leave any obvious mark on the outside. Unless of course, you get hit physically as well. In that case, 6MSJ would hurt you like a sword pierce but without the normals wounds a sword would inflict I would guess.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by Laviathan
Nope, this was only in TVB's adaptation... In the novel, there were no indications that Duan Yu learned how to effectively use Liumai Shenjian in the end.

Speaking to CC, he seems to think that DY might have learned to use 6MSJ freely. Especially towards the end of the novel, in the fights to save QF. Thanks for clarification.

[TristeCoeur]

In the novel, Duan Yu did not fight once in the fight to rescue Xiao Feng. I think CC got that impression from TVB's DGSD 97.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by TristeCoeur
In the novel, Duan Yu did not fight once in the fight to rescue Xiao Feng. I think CC got that impression from TVB's DGSD 97.

Thanks.

CC said that he sort of learned to control 6MSJ at the end. and i presume he meant the fight tosave QF. What a goof (on my part).

[CC]

Originally posted by Xiao Feng
Don't think there will be a physical gash/slash. Same way a high inner strengh strike will mess up your innards but doesn't leave any obvious mark on the outside. Unless of course, you get hit physically as well. In that case, 6MSJ would hurt you like a sword pierce but without the normals wounds a sword would inflict I would guess.

When Murong Fu's robes got hit by 6MSJ, it got cut just like a normal sword would. So I don't think 6MSJ would leave internal injury without external damage.

[TristeCoeur]

Originally posted by CC
When Murong Fu's robes got hit by 6MSJ, it got cut just like a normal sword would. So I don't think 6MSJ would leave internal injury without external damage.

Yep, and when Duan Yu used 6MSJ earlier in the novel, his victims all had holes on their bodies

[Xiao Feng]

Originally posted by TristeCoeur
Yep, and when Duan Yu used 6MSJ earlier in the novel, his victims all had holes on their bodies

Wow, then that is one nasty skill. Even nastier than I first thought. Commands respect this, MuRong Fu must have shit his pants