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Thread: What was the Sung Emporer doing?

  1. #1
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    Default What was the Sung Emporer doing?

    What was the Sung Emporer doing?

    he has guo jing to hold the mongols off for 30 sumthin years and he didnt even raise an army to send help to guo jing, but hav a bunch of corrupted officials?

    (i was also wondering how can a wuxia person get in to the fordidden palace so easily?)
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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    If the emperor did help GJ, that would be a contradiction against history, which I think Jin Yong will not allow.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    The Sung Emperors were known as lovers of art, music, and poetry, not warriors. More often than not, a corrupt and self-interested bureaucracy kept the truly dire news about the Jin and later Mongol threat to the Sung territories from the emperors. Naysayers were not appreciated (or promoted) in the Sung court. General Ngok Fei dedicated his life to protecting the country, and look where it got him: state condemnation as a traitor and execution.

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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    I think the Song dynasty was supposed to come to an end so of course there will be a bad king and corrupt officials. They just care for their own enjoyment so of course they won't help KJ. But you know it is "tian Yi" since the dynasty was doomed to end....
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    Senior Member Battosai's Avatar
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    Default Re: What was the Sung Emporer doing?

    Originally posted by LuNaR
    What was the Sung Emporer doing?

    Getting busy with the hottest boys and girls in China not named "little dragon girl"? And with some whisky shots in between, just so he can boost his stamina.

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Trinie
    I think the Song dynasty was supposed to come to an end so of course there will be a bad king and corrupt officials. They just care for their own enjoyment so of course they won't help KJ. But you know it is "tian Yi" since the dynasty was doomed to end....
    That's a lame excuse, and more or less turns cause and effect around. "The dynasty was suppose to end so of course there will be a bad emperor and corrupt officials", sorry that does not make sense. BECAUSE the emperor is bad and the officials corrupt, therefore the dynasty came to an end, not the other way around.

    Of coure, not every last emperor of a dynasty is a bad ruler... And the whole idea of Tianming/Tianyi (Heaven's Mandate/Heaven's Will) is just a fairytale made up by those in power.
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    TO Laviathan, Gosh you don't need to get all mad!! That's just what I heard ok? besides, dynasties have to end sometime. Even the ancient(Xia, Shang and Zhou) had to end sooner or later and they lasted over 500 years from what I heard. I guess you don't believe in fate and all. I don't 100% either, but it may play a part in people's destiny, who knows??
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    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    well, apparently, the emperor was not a good one...nor the ones before him. remember in begining of LOCH how guo xiao tian and yang tie xin kept criticizing the kings and the courts?

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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Trinie
    TO Laviathan, Gosh you don't need to get all mad!! That's just what I heard ok? besides, dynasties have to end sometime. Even the ancient(Xia, Shang and Zhou) had to end sooner or later and they lasted over 500 years from what I heard. I guess you don't believe in fate and all. I don't 100% either, but it may play a part in people's destiny, who knows??
    Well, I wasn't mad or anything. Sorry if I made you upset, wasn't my intention!
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    TO Laviathan, Oh no I wasn't upset. I was just scared that I made you upset. So sorry about that... I know that I am not a pro at any of of this like you are. I just said what I thought which I know isn't always right...
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    Senior Member Laviathan's Avatar
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    Default To Trinie

    No I wasn't upset either. I only disagreed with the idea of "Tianyi", it was nothing personal. It's not that I do not believe in fate, but I also believe that we should seperate history from myth.

    For example: if someone says "Iraq was destined to be attacked by the USA, that's why Heaven made Saddam ruler of Iraq and Bush leader of the American people. Iraq was doomed, and it was Bush' destiny to free Iraq from Saddam." That does not really make sense, does it? So why should we apply the same logic to Chinese history?
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    Actually, a dynasty can still fall even if the current emperor is a good one. The aggregation of lapses of previous emperors added with corrupt officials will bring down a dynasty.
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    Senior Member Trinie's Avatar
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    To Laviathan, Thanks for your info. Yea, what you said really makes sense. I always believe partly in fate and on the part of that person or dynasty. I do think that destiny is in a person/a dynasty's hands. If they aren't willing to defend the dynasty, than it will fall... I can tell that you are a pro at all this. I remember how you were defending Lin Ping Zhi. I agree with you and that everything should not be blamed on him. Most people are too hard on him.
    Last edited by Trinie; 12-01-03 at 05:26 AM.
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    Senior Member Thai guy's Avatar
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    Sung Emporor was weak and inefficient since the times of Yang's Warriors until the time of Guo Jing. Perhaps, the fate of Sung Dynasty was controlled by heaven.

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    (i was also wondering how can a wuxia person get in to the forbidden palace so easily?)
    Hehe, just imagine Jet Li's hero.

  16. #16
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    The Sung Emperor probably did not even know of GJ's existence.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Let's just put it like this: The Imperial harem had thousands of nubile young maidens...
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    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    I would choose imperial palace to go then , if GODDESS said to me that she would fulfill my wish.
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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    the palace was in control of corrupt enuchs and officals. the emperor did not even know there was a war going on. they downplayed everything to him. it was only when the mongolians reached the capital gates did he know really what had happened.
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  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    For the Sung Dynasty, the writing was probably on the wall as early as the founding of the dynasty back in the 10th Century. The Sung were always defense-oriented, and while there's nothing necessarily wrong with that, they kept on letting themselves get caught unprepared with the hostile steppe peoples that surrounded them. The Sung leaders never got it into their heads that they were a big, fat, juicy lamb that the (figurative) wolves of the northeast and northwest all salivated over. As the Chinese have been wont to do throughout their history, they looked down upon foreign peoples...believing in their own cultural superiority and that the "barbarians" outside the borders could never pose a real threat to them. Leaders such as Ngok Fei knew better, of course, but the Sung emperors couldn't be bothered to listen to the Ngok Feis of the nation. How could they, when the ministers within the palace walls were constantly telling them all was well? In that insulated environment, things probably *did* look well for a long time even though they really weren't.

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