Ciu Jian Ren's Teacher

[ToOn99]

Anyone know, how was Ciu jian ren's teacher (Shangkuan ...Something, I forgot ) rating compare to greats in LOCH ? Was he good enough to compete with greats if he was still alive at that time ? I think he was a bit older or same age as Wang Jong Yang.

[philip]

well, not all teachers are better than diciples. maybe qiu qian ren was a talented student...

[superboy]

I think there's probably no information about his teacher other than how he accepted QQR.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by superboy
I think there's probably no information about his teacher other than how he accepted QQR.

He was also a great Sung patriot and loyal follower of General Ngok Fei. That's why Ngok Fei's war tactics manual ended up in his possession.

[Stance]

So how come Kau Chin Yan never knew about it? Or did he?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Stance
So how come Kau Chin Yan never knew about it? Or did he?

Chief Seung Gwoon took the manual with him to his death and interment within the forbidden frozen tomb/treasure vault of the Iron Palm Union, an off-limits area that even the current Iron Palm Union Chief could not enter without incurring the death penalty. Although Kau Cheen Yan likely knew nothing about the war tactics manual being hidden in the tomb, he was undoubtedly aware that his predecessor/teacher had been a great patriot. That's why North Beggar Hung 7 Gung was so successful using this point to shame Kau Cheen Yan before the Second Mt. Hua Sword Tournament. Hung 7 Gung harshly rebuked Kau Cheen Yan for having betrayed the principles his teacher had stood for.

[Gunner]

If i'm not wrong, Chief Shangguan was a real historical character who was a follower of Gen Han Shizhong, not Gen Yue Fei. But given this connection, I guess his skills would be very high indeed. Some characters in the story seemed to mention that Yue Fei's skills were extremely superb and Shangguan being his contemporary couldn't be too bad either.

[Laviathan]

It was also stated in the novel that, at the age of 24, Qiu Qianren had already surpassed his teacher Shangguan Jiannan in the field of martial arts skills.

[philip]

Originally posted by Gunner
If i'm not wrong, Chief Shangguan was a real historical character who was a follower of Gen Han Shizhong, not Gen Yue Fei. But given this connection, I guess his skills would be very high indeed. Some characters in the story seemed to mention that Yue Fei's skills were extremely superb and Shangguan being his contemporary couldn't be too bad either.

yue fei, i belive was a stunning warrior on a battlefield, but as for a person in wu lin, he was not quite stunning. i mean, the skills u use on a war feild are different from that of a wu lin. skills on field would usually emphasize mass attacking or on horse back or something along those lines

i think it was stated somewhere that "yang family spear" was a great skill for battle, but when yang tie xin used it agianst chiu chu ji, it was like crap.

[superboy]

Well, yue fei in history was a very good martial artist. Jin Yong might take that fact into consideration and created him as an elite fighter.

[philip]

he was an elite warrior/military man/strategist...but i dun think jin yong intended for him to be an elite martial artist like the greats...
he wasn't quite famous for his martial arts but rather his war craft and patriotism

[superboy]

Who knows, I thought people in there think he's a great martial artist. But then, it is something that we do have enough information to judge.

[Gunner]

The Yang Family Spear as a skill was good enough to catch Qiu Chuji by surprise. The reason it didn't seem so good is coz it's wielder Yang Tiexin was rather lacking in neigong. I think the skill was a superior spear skill like Yue Fei's might have been and might have been very lethal in the hands of a well-grounded wuxia practitioner.

Let's not forget that Qiao Feng was able to use the First Song Emperor's skill in such a way that astounded everyone around even though it was basically a basic skill. In the legends of the Yang Family, the Yang spear was way superior to what the Song Emperor used.

In the story, for all of Wang Chongyang's martial arts ability, he wasn't able to make a real impact against the Jins. So i believe Yue Fei like Wang Chongyang could also have easily been a martial arts great considering he was almost undefeatable during his time.

[JUST BOB]

Originally posted by philip
he was an elite warrior/military man/strategist...but i dun think jin yong intended for him to be an elite martial artist like the greats...
he wasn't quite famous for his martial arts but rather his war craft and patriotism

he was famous for founding Eagle claw

[philip]

Originally posted by Gunner
The Yang Family Spear as a skill was good enough to catch Qiu Chuji by surprise. The reason it didn't seem so good is coz it's wielder Yang Tiexin was rather lacking in neigong. I think the skill was a superior spear skill like Yue Fei's might have been and might have been very lethal in the hands of a well-grounded wuxia practitioner.

Let's not forget that Qiao Feng was able to use the First Song Emperor's skill in such a way that astounded everyone around even though it was basically a basic skill. In the legends of the Yang Family, the Yang spear was way superior to what the Song Emperor used.

In the story, for all of Wang Chongyang's martial arts ability, he wasn't able to make a real impact against the Jins. So i believe Yue Fei like Wang Chongyang could also have easily been a martial arts great considering he was almost undefeatable during his time.

qiu chu ji was surprised b/c he thought yang tie xin to be traitor...not the descendant of a patriot. true, w/ much inner strength, just about any simple skill can be devastating. most people probably couldn't even take a regular punch from xiao feng, not to mention a skill that someone actually developed.
question is...why does xiao feng not join the army?

yue fei' kung fu was probably not bad, but i dun think he was a legendary martial artist like xiao feng, the greats, etc...

[Gunner]

Xiao Feng did join the army, just not the Chinese Army.

[superboy]

JY might have made Yue Fei a great martial artist that later become a military leader in his mind too. There are endless possibilities.

[philip]

"might"

point is...HE DIDN"T
jin yong might had done anything...he might have let yang kang marry xln instead...he might have turned xiao feng into an evil traitor...he might have let guo jin ditch huang rong for hua zhen. who knows what jin yong "might" do?

[superboy]

I was just talking about in his mind. Like how he only gave us a sketch of HS's and DGKB's life, there probably is more in his mind.

[Gunner]

with regards to Yue Fei, JY never absolutely made him a great or an average martial artist. It's more open to interpretation. Wanyan Honglie in LOCH mentioned that Yue Fei was a formidable warrior and some of the characters even speculated that the Wumu Yishu might contain some superior martial arts skill. Wheither that meant Yue Fei might have been a formidable fighter is up to us to interpret.