DGSD Chapter 42. Fight at Shaolin Part 2.

[JigSta]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
Which has absolutely nothing to do with anything at all.

6MSJ is not YYZ, and no one is making that claim; what it is, is a HEAVILY modified YYZ that is EXTREMELY powerful...but it is still based on YYZ, so it is NOT sword qi. I make no claims as to which is more effective, but regardless, 6MSJ is not sword qi. That's all there is to it.

I meant how different they are, not how effective they both are in relation to each other. My point was 6MSJ is so "HEAVILY modified", it actually should be considered as a whole new set of martial arts, not just an extended version of YYZ. Because otherwise it would be an IMPROVEMENT, which should make YYZ quite obsolete.

So yeah, i wasn't talking bout the 'sword chi', cause I really don't know the particulars

[Ren Wo Xing]

Oh, well yeah, 6MSJ is definitely different from YYZ, but the basic theories underlying each are the same I've always thought of 6MSJ as a battle-modification to YYZ; it loses all of it's healing and acupoint sealing properties in exchange for strength in battle.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by CC
I think (not stated in book explicitly, but looks like it) that he was using all those elaborate moves to block the 6MSJ. The real 6MSJ is not like that TVB 6 coloured rainbow laser gun. It can be swung around like a sword (e.g. one of DY's attack was described as curving in from the side). MRF was probably using his weapons to block the sword chi.

Yes, I think that during the fight, DY's sword chi and MRF's weapons clashed head on many many times. Otherwise, for a full quarter hour those 2 would have been standing 12 feet apart and hacking at empty air all that time.

6MSJ have almost always been described as invisible. How then can MRF counter, much less detect the 6MSJ?

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
It is. 'Sword qi' is when you exert qi onto empty space where normally you would hold a sword, and keep it in that form. 6MSJ is a modification of finger-qi that you can swing around. Even if they SEEM similar and are used in similar ways, the theory behind them is totally different.

2 questions here:-
1) Regardless of the origin of the inner power generation technique, is there any difference in the end product i.e. the way the sword chi and 6MSJ would do it's damage?

2) Any examples of a real sword chi use in JY stories? (Even in GL's universe, this is considered beyond rare)

[CC]

Originally posted by Han Solo
6MSJ have almost always been described as invisible. How then can MRF counter, much less detect the 6MSJ?

Probably from the way Duan Yu swings his hands/fingers. Anyway, all long distance chi attacks are invisible too, From the Nian Hua Zhi to the Xiang Long Zhang.

Again I have to stress, 6MSJ isnt just invisible ray gun, its a set of 'sword' techniques too.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by CC
Probably from the way Duan Yu swings his hands/fingers. Anyway, all long distance chi attacks are invisible too, From the Nian Hua Zhi to the Xiang Long Zhang.

Again I have to stress, 6MSJ isnt just invisible ray gun, its a set of 'sword' techniques too.

Then DY can probably "faked" MRF out by moving his hand randomly.

Is there any other way to detect the chi (other than guessing)?

[CC]

Originally posted by Han Solo
Then DY can probably "faked" MRF out by moving his hand randomly.

Maybe, but if DY didnt attack non-stop, it might give MRF an opening to KO him. I suppose the top fighters have this chi sense or something, like how they can detect strong inner power from someone's breathing, they can probably detect inner power being used/projected.

Anyway, my impression of the fight is that if MRF had just backed off 20-30 feet and chucked projectiles at DY, he might have won. Or if he didn't gloat when DY hit the floor and just stomped on him.

[ChronoReverse]

Then DY can probably "faked" MRF out by moving his hand randomly.

If it was so easy to fake out a top fighter, then any grunt carrying a precious sword waving it around randomly would be able to kill a top-level fighter. This is obviously not true.

DY is doing everything he can to keep MRF away and in fact did a pretty good job of it. It's pretty easy to tell that MRF is unable to keep up with DY's fingers/chi streams until he is 10 feet away from which he can then deal with DY's attacks, invisible or not.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by Han Solo
2 questions here:-
1) Regardless of the origin of the inner power generation technique, is there any difference in the end product i.e. the way the sword chi and 6MSJ would do it's damage?

2) Any examples of a real sword chi use in JY stories? (Even in GL's universe, this is considered beyond rare)

1) Well, first of all, staying power. 6MSJ is a HUGE drain on the user (one of it's main drawbacks), and each sword cannot be 'maintained', so to speak. Whereas real sword qi, it's just like using a real sword; there's not a massive drain of energy, and the sword is constant, which is why the origin of the inner power generation is a -very- important difference. Also, 6MSJ is in bursts whereas real sword qi is 'on' all the time during the battle.

2) The use of real sword qi is the ultimate form of using a sword; the only one who has EVER mastered (or supposedly mastered) sword qi was Du Gu Qiu Bai himself...which is why I rise up in arms when people claim that pansy-boy knows sword qi

[PJ]

So, what is a judge pen anyway?

[JigSta]

Isn't it a large ink pen? Didn't a guy (forgot his name) use one to fight one of the students of Golden Wheel Monk when he challenged the central plains fighters? And I think ZWJ's dad used one too.

there's not a massive drain of energy

Is this mentioned in any book? Because it sounds really wierd to me. Projecting 'sword chi' out constantly and NOT have a massive chi drain sounds, well, beyond belief...

[superboy]

Do 6MSJ really consume that much internal energy? Howcome DY didn't seem to be exhusted?

[Xiao Feng]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
1) Well, first of all, staying power. 6MSJ is a HUGE drain on the user (one of it's main drawbacks), and each sword cannot be 'maintained', so to speak. Whereas real sword qi, it's just like using a real sword; there's not a massive drain of energy, and the sword is constant, which is why the origin of the inner power generation is a -very- important difference. Also, 6MSJ is in bursts whereas real sword qi is 'on' all the time during the battle.

2) The use of real sword qi is the ultimate form of using a sword; the only one who has EVER mastered (or supposedly mastered) sword qi was Du Gu Qiu Bai himself...which is why I rise up in arms when people claim that pansy-boy knows sword qi

A few questions about your comments then:

How huge is HUGE? (when you are talking about 6MSJ draining energy) Any supporting evidence of this phenomenon?
6MSJ is 'ON' so to speak when the user strikes, same as with sword qi, the wielder will project his qi when he attacks. Not 'on' it for fun the whole time (which is a waste). And how you reckon do you keep a qi projection there if you do not expend qi? cause you say it as though sword qi does not need the user to expend energy to maintain?

[superboy]

I still have to say that 6MSJ is prettydangerous for unskillful users. Try to do the slashing hand movments of it fast, and I think you might find your own hands slashed off. If DY got to excited during the battle, he might actually hit himself. Anyway, have DY ever get his energy exhuasted using it in the novel?

[philip]

not that i can remember...his energy is like endless just like xu zhu

[linghuchong]

yeah, i think that theres a misconception taking the lasers made by TVB in mind when thinking of this skill.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
1) Well, first of all, staying power. 6MSJ is a HUGE drain on the user (one of it's main drawbacks), and each sword cannot be 'maintained', so to speak. Whereas real sword qi, it's just like using a real sword; there's not a massive drain of energy, and the sword is constant, which is why the origin of the inner power generation is a -very- important difference. Also, 6MSJ is in bursts whereas real sword qi is 'on' all the time during the battle.

2) The use of real sword qi is the ultimate form of using a sword; the only one who has EVER mastered (or supposedly mastered) sword qi was Du Gu Qiu Bai himself...which is why I rise up in arms when people claim that pansy-boy knows sword qi

I got some questions:-

1) Regarding sword chi, how is it generated? How is it sustained? How is it different from a) "wind" created by the force of the move or b) the inner power driving the sword move as distinct from inner power creating the sword chi?

2) How can sword chi be maintained at all time? Would that not be draining on energy? What is maintained? - the form or the force?

Hopelessly confused,
Han Solo

[minutemanwayne]

These answers are based on my own opinions.

1. Sword chi, the most advanced type of chi in the martial arts relm. Only two people were known to be able to execute sword chi in Jin Yong novels. That is Yang Guo and The Sword Demon Du Gu Qiu Bai (Quite possibly Zhang Sanfeng too). Sword Chi is generated by your mind, body, and the connection between you and The Sword. Profound knowledge of The Sword is a neccesity in order to execute sword chi. Difference between sword chi and palm win is palm wind will either cause irregular breathing or cause internal damage. Sword chi will either cut you or cut you AND cause internal damage. Yang Guo's sword chi was described as "a huge wave or mountain topeling over you". The energy generated by his iron sword was able to calm down the waves in the ocean or sea. Yang Guo at this point can not execute the highest level of sword energy. Only The Sword Demon is able to.

2. After one is able to generate sword chi, you and The Sword become one. One no longer places emphasis on fancy sword techniques and stances. There are no techniques. The Sword becomes an embodiment of your own self, and therefore will last as long as your mind and body last. Personally I believe Du Gu Qiu Bai no longer relied on mainly on cultivating internal energy in his last stage. At this stage, he only seeked to gain the true essence of The Sword itself. Slowly, he finally reached Sword Enlightenment.

[Han Solo]

So sorry,

Still confused.

How is sword chi generated?

Using inner force?

Is so, then it could never be maintained forever, right?


Han Solo; who can identify with DY about not wanting to leave this world, yet.

[tape]

Good post minuteman....but I'm still thinking that a sword is a manmade object. It's not a divine object that has a ultimate way or purpose, it's how any person wants to use it. I don't really understand what you mean by Sword Enlightenment, every person can choose to use a sword their own way, so one really cant attain a particular enlightenment. Sorry if I dont sound very coherent either.