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Thread: DGSD Chapter 42. Fight at Shaolin Part 2.

  1. #61
    Senior Member Tazzy1972's Avatar
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    Thanks man
    TaZzY InC

  2. #62
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Cool Sweeper vs. XF etc etc etc

    Happy Pre-Chinese New Year!
    .
    Answering Ken's question in "Wuxia Fiction" thread:
    .
    Let's first understand the situation leading to Sweeper Monk vs. XF. Using DGSD2003 as guide [only read bits of DGSD], XF's search for his identity ["truth"] is similar to Oedipus's search [with the "father" thing replacing the "mother" thing ][Recently found literature in general "is" about enlightenment and tested this].
    .
    It's during the Shaolin Temple scene just prior meeting Sweeper that XF found his "truth" - revealing his father ["sins of the father"] and his father's counterpart still exists. Then, the two fathers and their two sons [North XF+ South MRong] met Sweeper. Sweeper hit both the fathers on the "crown" chakra - in "kundalini" that's the doorway to god-consciousness/enlightenment. With both the fathers gone, Sweeper is actually giving XF and South MR a chance to enlightenment at this point [recall this story is about XF.] XF accepted his father's new status, MR couldnt [MR couldnt let go of the empire]. XF still lingers and want to visit his father again; however, his father refused: basically, XF arrives to his enlightenment after his 7 (?) day penance to see [but didnt see] his father. After that point, XF is committed to peace and refused to kill [a sure sign of enlightenment.]
    .
    Now let's return to Sweeper vs. XF. Recall Sweeper (with compassion) "intentionally" killed XF's and MR's father, taking their sin [their hatred, desires, etc] into himself. Of course we could say that he can un-intentionally kill both fathers without evoking karma [aka Musashi-style of combat]; however, it's also true that bodhisattva's [Buddha's on earth] is still subject to karma repercussions [they still owe karmic debts of the past though they escaped future ones forever.] Thus, who's best to dish out karma that the most powerful mortal beast on earth: a dragon or a draconic symbol - HL18Z. Sweeper was hit by XF's HL18Z in part to recompense his killing of two figures [of course, he later "healed" them: this is actually rebirth/enlightenment for the two father figures: the ego dies but the true self remains/lives.]
    .
    A little [Enlightenment] advertisement:
    Found "A course in consciousness" summarizes what I found on the net regarding enlightenment [for those who care]. Most recommended but require high school + physics knowledge + "serious" [not meant for casual] reading.
    http://faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/

  3. #63
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    [{quote=han solo}6MSJ have almost always been described as invisible. How then can MRF counter, much less detect the 6MSJ?]

    all forces exherted make the marks and vibrations. when you move your hand you push air. you create sound. even through 6MSJ is invisible, it is so powerful that the air is pushed in front it and there's the sound of 'cutting air' as it comes towards you. an expert can make out the attack the same way blind fighters 'see' attacks by using 'listening to the wind' skill. you should also be able to feel the aura of the 'sword' before it reaches you through it's debatable if you can avoid or block it in time. only the top fighters would be able to.

    [{quote=han solo}1) Regarding sword chi, how is it generated? How is it sustained? How is it different from a) "wind" created by the force of the move or b) the inner power driving the sword move as distinct from inner power creating the sword chi?

    2) How can sword chi be maintained at all time? Would that not be draining on energy? What is maintained? - the form or the force?]

    'sword chi' is a general term. not every top fighter uses a sword. it's not like there 'sword chi' 'saber chi' 'spear chi' 'palm chi' 'foot chi'. 'sword chi' refers to a killing force created by a fight using inner energy that can destroy what's in front of you. it can be a wave of force, a (dragon)ball of force, a concentrated beam of force(lightsaber). this killing force is created by 'chi' but this inner force can only by formed into 'sword chi' by extreme concentration by the fighter and can be used in a variety of ways(infinate) depending on the fighter. E.G. swordsman thrust his sword against boulder. sword breaks. swordsman thrust his sword with inner force against boulder. sword goes in halfway. swordsman thrust his sword filled with 'sword chi' against boulder. boulder split in two at lightest touch of sword, force beyond swords power. same can be done with any weapon or with proper technique, no weapon nessesary, hand as sword enough.
    YG uses palm as sword and wave of 'sword chi'
    DY uses finger as sword and beam of 'sword chi'
    LHC uses sword and sword filled with 'sword chi' using finale of DG9J.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  4. #64
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    HI CC

    U r still gonna translate rest of ch42 right?
    or is it already translated and is somewhere scattered in spcnet?
    can't wait to read more

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    1) Well, first of all, staying power. 6MSJ is a HUGE drain on the user (one of it's main drawbacks), and each sword cannot be 'maintained', so to speak. Whereas real sword qi, it's just like using a real sword; there's not a massive drain of energy, and the sword is constant, which is why the origin of the inner power generation is a -very- important difference. Also, 6MSJ is in bursts whereas real sword qi is 'on' all the time during the battle.

    2) The use of real sword qi is the ultimate form of using a sword; the only one who has EVER mastered (or supposedly mastered) sword qi was Du Gu Qiu Bai himself...which is why I rise up in arms when people claim that pansy-boy knows sword qi
    Any proof of your assertions?

    How do you know what is the energy drain of 6MSJ? I dont recall any part mentioning the amount of energy drained.

    How about what you call "sword qi"? Where does it state that sword qi needs no energy to maintain?

    Du Gu Qiu Bai supposed reached the level of "overcoming sword without sword". I guess you infer this to mean sword qi, but I dont think this was ever stated.

    Now since we are not sure if anyone ever really reached the level of "Sword Qi", and there are not much detailed descriptions of this, based on what evidence do you say what is and what is not sword qi?

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  6. #66
    Junior Member SevenFortunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    2 questions here:-
    1) Regardless of the origin of the inner power generation technique, is there any difference in the end product i.e. the way the sword chi and 6MSJ would do it's damage?

    2) Any examples of a real sword chi use in JY stories? (Even in GL's universe, this is considered beyond rare)

    @1: Actually I think there are some noted differences from the description. I'd say 6MSJ is more like a rapier than a sword, i.e. it is the point with which you fight and that inflicts damage, it has no cutting blade per se. So while you can swing the point to inflict wounds that way it is a more limited style. Also a "virtual sword" such as sword chi is maintained while 6MSJ seems to create new "rapiers" every time it is used. So it cannot for instance be used to attack and then deflect, deflection in general would be hard. 6MSJ could also be more of a drain on energy, though arguments could be made that that is compensated b the short burst and saving energy when not needed while sword chi must be maintained all the time. Not sure which of the 2 applies, but it makes sense that one of the 2 is more energy efficient.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
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  7. #67
    Junior Member SevenFortunes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    So sorry,

    Still confused.

    How is sword chi generated?

    Using inner force?

    Is so, then it could never be maintained forever, right?


    Han Solo; who can identify with DY about not wanting to leave this world, yet.

    I've been thinking on this. It might be that sword chi is nothing more that the users awareness of a sword. With someone like Du Gu using a sword might be so much a part of him that the sword is more like a limb than an implement. So summoning sword chi might be no more strenuous than "remembering" a sword with enough conviction that it is there, sheer force of will and an unshakable conviction rather than an expenditure of energy (like 6MSJ). Of course the "sword" is there, the sword is always there, it takes not effert to remember that. Only total mental exhaustion could therefore prevent a sword chi user to use his "sword". You see a fly trying to land on your food and without thinking you wave it away. You see someone attacking you and you counter his attack with your "sword" or in Du Gu's case, strike first. No effort, just instict.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion,
    It is by the beans of java that thoughts aquire speed,
    the hands aquire shaking,
    the shaking becomes a warning.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.

  8. #68
    Junior Member xuzhu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    It is. 'Sword qi' is when you exert qi onto empty space where normally you would hold a sword, and keep it in that form. 6MSJ is a modification of finger-qi that you can swing around. Even if they SEEM similar and are used in similar ways, the theory behind them is totally different.
    Found something interesting on the web regarding the proposed theory of 6MSJ. Those interested may view it at this url:

    http://campus.cer.net/20041202/3123264.shtml

    It's in Mandarin.

  9. #69
    Senior Member Phoenix_Aquaris's Avatar
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    All these talks on 6MSJ is really impressing me. They sound so real and Wow! How nice if I was to learn it. However, pardon me for being such an ignorant and inexperienced novice interrupting, but I think 6MSJ is not really what some of you guys think.
    (As I said, pardon me if i am wrong, k.. These are merely my opinions..)
    As I have done a slight research on sword 'qi', I noticed that although sword 'qi' marks the ultimate mastery in swordplay, it is not as divine as what you guys claim to be. Sword 'qi' can only be ejected from a finger or a sword that was imbued with almighty internal energy and displayed with high experience and flawless swordplay. If I am not mistaken, there is no such thing as a wave of sword 'qi'. If strong power emanates from a pugilist's palm, that would be called 'zhang3 feng1' or roughly translated as palm wind. A sword is unique in a sense it kills with the lethal blade at the tip, and the immense force all exerted on one point. The finger is the closest part on our body capable of producing that, but the palm unleashes a mighty incapicitating blow of high power and low pressure.
    A sword never destroys, it pierces, inflicting damage to a tiny area but power is superior to that of any other weapon. Sword 'qi' is generally internal energy being exerted into the wind, forming this aerial sword existing as pure form of energy which had no strength or hardness, thus it had no limit in its sharpness. If DY uses a sword to fight MRF, he cannot even break MRF's sword into half, not to mention into 30 pieces. It is razor sharp to the extent of being able to scythe through any barrier or rock. Neither is it a tool to be weild around at your fingertips. To put in roughly, it is shot towards the foe in the form of a beam. But in case you guys think of it as 'Yucks!' how ugly looking!" Pls think again.. U guys noe the chinese term jian4 qi4 zong4 heng2 rite. If a guy was to use 6MSJ appropriately it would look like that.

  10. #70
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Does anyone know if the 3rd edition is available anywhere in electronic form yet? I want to continue this but don't really want to continue using the 2nd ed from Qiqi.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  11. #71
    Senior Member Demonic Swordsman's Avatar
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    hmm does anyone have an answer? i cant navigate chinese sites (theyre too cramped and tough on the eyes), but i would really like to see more of this translation
    "The most happy marriage I can picture or imagine would be union of a deaf man to a blind woman."

  12. #72
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Tian Long Ba Bu - Chapter 42.

    Part 1

    ******

    Murong Fu's spirits were lifted as Deng Bai Chun's longsword sailed through the air into his hands. Displaying his Murong Family's swordstyle, the strokes were soft and fluid like flowing water and in an instant, his body was surrounded by a nimbus of glowing light. The gathered Wulin members all had long heard rumours of the Murong Family's impressive martial arts, yet none had anticipated that their swordplay was of such brilliance.

    Yet no matter how fiercely Murong Fu attacked, he was unable to get within ten feet of Duan Yu. As Duan Yu pointed and poked with both hands, Murong Fu was forced into a defensive position and had to dodge unabatedly. Suddenly, there was a loud 'Pai' and the longsword in Murong Fu's hands was shattered into over 30 pieces as it collided with the invisible sword energy from Duan Yu. The pieces soared through the air and reflected the sunlight,
    sending out shards of brilliant white light.

    Murong Fu was stunned by the incident, yet he kept his calm. Waving his right arm, he utilised the broken shards of the sword as projectiles and sent a storm of flying metal to rain on Duan Yu. With a loud shout of 'AIYAH!', Duan Yu was at a loss as he flailed his limbs aimlessly and flopped down onto the ground. (**See you guys? Murong Fu ain't that bad. Just not in Xiao Feng's league but who the hell is?***). As the hail of broken shards flew over his head, the sight of a fighter sprawling on the floor in a fight between pugilistic elites was an ugly sight to behold. Although Murong Fu's sword was broken, he gained victory in defeat with great style and gained much more glory then Duan Yu.

    Feng Bo Er yelled out : " Master, grab the sabre!" and tossed his sabre out. With sabre in hand, Murong Fu turned to see that Duan Yu had already stood up. Laughing out he asked : " Brother Duan, this stance of 'Wild Dog eats urine', is it secret technique of the Dali House of Duan?". Duan Yu was at a loss and replied flatly : "No it is not." and flicked out the little finger on his fight hand with a "Shao Chong Jian".

    Murong Fu wielded his sabre as if in dance and executed the strokes from "5 Tigers Breaking the Gate", the skill of "Eight Trigram Sabre Play" and even the "Six Unified Sabres" (**Wu Hu Duan Men Dao, Ba Gua Dao Fa, Liu He Dao**). In a quarter of an hour, he had displayed over eight or nine different sets of sabreplay. Each was a deep and profound style and executed with brilliance. The assembled sabre wielders marvelled at his saberplay but saw that not matter what he did, he was unable to close in on Duan Yu. As Duan Yu executed a stroke of "Shao Chong Jian", his attack curving in from the left, Murong Fu raised his sabre to block and with a clang, the sharp sabre was also broken.

    Gong Ye Gan immediately tossed out his Judge Pens (*Pan Guan Bi*) to his master. Murong Fu tossed down the broken sabre and grabbed the pens, immediately attacking with his accupoint hitting techniques, the pens exuded a 'chi' 'chi' sound as his inner force shot out through them.

    Duan Yu had survived over a hundred strokes in the fight and his fear gradually subsided, remembering the teachings of his Uncle and Elder Ku Rong on inner strength techniques he executed the Liu Mai Shen Jian with harmonious and well connected circular strokes. Suddenly he heard the voice of Xiao Feng : "Third Brother, you are still not experienced with the Liu Mai Shen Jian, the six stances are different and there is a gap when you change between the six, allowing time for your opponent to attack. You should try concentrating on only 1 stance."
    Here it was! I remember reading this now, but you never finished. Pretty please, CC?
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  13. #73
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Chapter 42 (continued).


    Duan Yu replied "Thank you for the instruction Big Brother!" Peering quickly to the side, he saw Xiao Feng standing idly by the side with a relaxed expression while Juang Ju Xian was lying on the floor with both legs broken, groaning loudly.

    It turned out that once Xiao Feng was without the grave threat of Murong Fu and faced You Tanzhi alone, he immediately gained the upper hand. However, whenever their palms connected head on, Xiao Feng could feel an incredible cold energy penetrating his body, causing unspeakable pain. Xiao Feng instantly threw out a loud multitude of fierce palm strikes and while You Tanzhi fully concentrated on meeting the many palm strikes head on, Xiao Feng dropped to the floor and swept out with a kick.

    You Tanzhi's strength was in his Silk Iceworm Poison fused with the Yi Jin Jing internal cultivation while his hand and leg techniques were wholly learnt from Ah Zhi and were nothing extraordinary. With a snapping sound, both his lower leg bones were broken at the same time, causing him to fall to the floor. Xiao Feng spoke in a clear voice "The Beggar Sect always places humanity and justice foremost. As the leader, how can one consort with the Xing Su Sect deviants? Do not disgrace the good reputation of Beggar Sect which was built up over centuries!"

    You Tanzhi only became Sect Leader through his extraordinary fighting skills, his deameanor and bearing was totally insufficient to earn the respect of the Sect members. The mask which he wore daily gave him an air of secrecy and mystery which was accentuated by the fact that the daily Sect affairs were overseen by Ah Zhi and Quan Guan Qing. This situation had cause great resentment amongst the Beggar Sect members. On this day, after they had witnessed him killing multiple Sect members with his technique while kneeling before Ding Chun Qiu and swearing allegiance to Xing Su Sect, non of the Beggar Sect members held him in regard as the Sect Leader anymore. Even though both his limbs were broken by Xiao Feng, they were secretly thrilled and no one came forward to assist him. Although Quan Guan Qing and a small number of his die-hard lackeys had the intention to come forward to help, they were all intimidated by Xiao Feng's mighty presence and no one was suicidal enough to step forward.

    After Xiao Feng had knocked down You Tanzhi, he saw that Xu Zhu was clearly dominating over Ding Chun Qiu but while some of Duan Yu's Six Meridian Sword strokes were clearly brilliant and exquisite, many of his moves were also incomparably idiotic. After watching Duan Yu squander many opportunities to gain victory, he could not help but interfere with some advice.

    While Duan Yu momentarily glanced at Xiao Feng and You Tanzhi, the distraction caused a gap to open in his Six Meridian Swords and the ever vigilant Murong Fu immediately took advantage of the situation. With a swing of his left hand, he infused a Judge Pen with inner force and threw it at Duan Yu's chest. Seeing the Judge Pen about to pierce his bosom, Duan Yu frantically yelled out "Big Brother! Help"

    With a stroke of "Watching the Dragon in the Field" Xiao Feng struck out sideways and the Judge Pen was inmmediately caught in the palm energy. Unexpectedly, the Pen circled behind Duan Yu's head and shot back towards Murong Fu.

    Murong Fu imediately raised his right arm with the other Judge Pen to smash away the incoming strike. With a loud 'Dang!'both Pens collided and he felt his right arm go numb. Without waiting for the deformed pen to drop, he hooked out with his left arm and caught hold of the pen.

    When the gathered crowd witnessed the power of Xiao Feng's palm and the marvellous and exquisite hooking technique of Murong Fu, they could not help but break out in loud cheers. Witnessing such incredible talent, they had not travelled all the way to Shaolin in vain.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  14. #74
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    With a stroke of "Watching the Dragon in the Field" Xiao Feng struck out sideways and the Judge Pen was inmmediately caught in the palm energy. Unexpectedly, the Pen circled behind Duan Yu's head and shot back towards Murong Fu.
    Wow! LDA Taiji - XF made the pen circle around Duan Yu's head, then strike at Murong Fu, with a 'lateral' strike! Xiao Feng is really Xiao Feng!
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  15. #75
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    What actually astounded me is that MRF could actually take it head on. It's not surprising XF could do something like that, he's a genius in martial arts anyways, but we always like to ridicule MRF.

  16. #76
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    Thanks CC.

    YTZ certainly seems bad - DY bad in this passage.

    With one sweep of the legs, his legs are broken by QF.

    Han Solo
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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

  17. #77
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    With one sweep of the legs, his legs are broken by QF.

    Han Solo
    I didn't quite like that part too much since in earlier parts of the fight, JY emphasised that YTZ was capable of subconcious defence/reflex and that his YJJ provided him with autoprotection. With that kind of inner energy, he really shouldn't get both legs broken in 1 sweep.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I didn't quite like that part too much since in earlier parts of the fight, JY emphasised that YTZ was capable of subconcious defence/reflex and that his YJJ provided him with autoprotection. With that kind of inner energy, he really shouldn't get both legs broken in 1 sweep.
    Well, in the earlier part, YTZ had 'frozen'; his conscious mind wasn't doing anything, and his subconscious took over. At this part, he was dealing with a flurry/onslaught of blows. I think it is logical that his conscious mind was active, so the subconscious was pushed away.

    With regards to internal energy, I've always been of the opinion that it was more the cold ying poison of his palms that caused XF discomfort rather than internal energy that was more profound than that of XF; this seems to indicate that was the truth.

    Eagerly awaiting more. No pressure though; take your time!
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    With regards to internal energy, I've always been of the opinion that it was more the cold ying poison of his palms that caused XF discomfort rather than internal energy that was more profound than that of XF; this seems to indicate that was the truth.

    2 things which I feel argue against that :

    1. If Xiao Feng had superior inner energy, the Yin poison shouldn't be able to penetrate then.

    2. This is more compelling. Xiao Feng was using Dragon '#1 under Heaven' Palms against YTZ's '3rd Hand Xing Su nothing-extraordinary' Palms. There was no indication that YTZ was even forced backwards half a step or had any difficulty meeting the whole barrage of full power Dragon Palms head on. For that to happen, his inner power should be substantially higher then Xiao Feng.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    But likewise, there was no indication that XF was ever pushed back or had problems meeting YTZ's palm; it just stated that he felt the pain from the incredible cold, and that he amped up his own internal energy to resist it. It's also arguable the other way around; namely, that since XF was able to match YTZ's poisonous Ying palms blow for blow, his internal energy is at least equal to, if not higher, than YTZ's.

    With regards to point two, Dragon Palms or Xing Su crappy palms are outer martial arts cultivations; they should have no effect on internal energy.
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