Shaolin Abbot in SOD

[Han Solo]

SOD is one of the major anomalies together with Ode to Gallantry. Both novel is set in early Ming and their fighters may seem to be equivalent or better than the trilogy series. A case in point was the Shaolin abbot in SOD where presumably he knows 12 Shaolin Supreme Skills. The highest recorded in all the years of Shaolin History up to the year of DGSD (excluding Damo and Janitor Monk), was only 13 skills, and that guy ended up partially crippled. This abbot in SOD was also able to write on woods.

My question was then how great was the shaolin abbot vis a vis the greats of the trilogy?

[Thai guy]

I personally think that Shaolin abbot cannot anyway be better than five greats of the Trilogy. These five greats already reached the pinnacle level of martial arts. I think that Shaolin abbot once paid respect to Yeung Gor by giving him something that he later gave to Guo Xiang. This seems to indicate that Yeung Gor martial art's level was much better than Shaolin abbot in general. Moreover, it should be asked where the Shaolin abbot that the time when Guo Jing fought with the Monglian?

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Thai guy
I personally think that Shaolin abbot cannot anyway be better than five greats of the Trilogy. These five greats already reached the pinnacle level of martial arts. I think that Shaolin abbot once paid respect to Yeung Gor by giving him something that he later gave to Guo Xiang. This seems to indicate that Yeung Gor martial art's level was much better than Shaolin abbot in general. Moreover, it should be asked where the Shaolin abbot that the time when Guo Jing fought with the Monglian?

We are not talking about the shaolin abbot during the time of the condor trilogy. Plus the shaolin abbot during that time is not even a challenge for the abbot in SOD.
I would say the Shaolin abbot in SOD would be on par with the greats. I assume that that his skill have almost reached formless. Where his techniques are unpredictable.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by TaiHan
We are not talking about the shaolin abbot during the time of the condor trilogy. Plus the shaolin abbot during that time is not even a challenge for the abbot in SOD.
I would say the Shaolin abbot in SOD would be on par with the greats. I assume that that his skill have almost reached formless. Where his techniques are unpredictable.

His palm skills WERE formless; LHC, while watching RWX fight FZ, noticed that both of their palm skills were such.

[superboy]

If the Shaolin abbot is at the level of the Greats, wouldn't it mean that DFBB is way more powerful than the Greats then? Somehow I doubt that.

[minutemanwayne]

The Shaolin Abbot Fangzheng in SPW has mastered the Yi Jin Jing. However the Yi Jin Jing in SPW wasn't the same as in DGSD. In order to master Yi Jin Jing (In DGSD) you had to have buddhist enlightenment whereas in SPW, anybody could of learned Yi Jin Jing. I believe the Yi Jin Jing in SPW is much more inferior to the one in DGSD.

If Fangzheng = Ren Wo Xing
Ren Wo Xing < Ling Hu Chong
Ling Hu Chong, Ren Wo Xing, Xiang Wentian < Dong Fang Bubai

Then Ling Hu Chong is better than The Greats (Even though he hasn't even comprehended the essence of Dugu 9 Swords completely) and Dong Fang Bubai is in the league of the DGSD elites?

[superboy]

Yes, this is totally something I find hard to swallow.

[tape]

First RWX is not less than LWC. He has much better inner strength, and I'm not even sure he would lose to LWC in the area of swordsplay.

Perhaps the Shaolin Abbot is equal to the Greats...

[superboy]

But that would make DFBB way better than the Greats.

[Charlieboy]

Fangzheng=Ren Wo Xing

is this true? I thought RWX couldn't detect any flaws or openings in FZ's palms, was FZ attacking RWX with conviction?

[minutemanwayne]

Originally posted by tape
First RWX is not less than LWC. He has much better inner strength, and I'm not even sure he would lose to LWC in the area of swordsplay.

Perhaps the Shaolin Abbot is equal to the Greats...

I agree that Ren Wo Xing had more internal energy than Ling Hu Chong, but that doesn't mean he will beat him. Ren Wo Xing's Xi Xing Da Fa is useless against Ling Hu Chong, due to Yi Jin Jeng. Moreover, LHC can absorb RWX, while RWX can't. In terms of swordplay Ling Hu Chong, Yue Buqun, Priest Chongxu, Dongfang Bubai, Feng Qingyang, and Lin Pingzhi are the best of that era. RWX is mainly a bare handed fighter. Also according to Moinlleon, LHC was doing alot better than RWX in the fight against Dongfang Bubai.

[Ren Wo Xing]

FZ and RWX were around the same basic level; who was better would be unknown. RWX knew that even if he beat FZ (which wasn't definite), he would be too drained to face Chong Xue and Zuo Lengchan, and so he tricked FZ to win.

I very much doubt, btw, that LHC is better than RWX. As was mentioned RWX had much better internal strength, and the DG9J level that LHC was at was still about defeating stances; not to mention, LHC's mastery of palm-breaking stance was imperfect, and had no practical knowledge at all of chii-breaking stance. With the sword, RWX was formless as well, having no stance to break.

[minutemanwayne]

Originally posted by Charlieboy
Fangzheng=Ren Wo Xing

is this true? I thought RWX couldn't detect any flaws or openings in FZ's palms, was FZ attacking RWX with conviction?

In terms of martial arts, they were about the same. When they competed internal energy, RWX tried to use Xi Xing Da Fa but due to Fangzhengs Yi Jin Jeng, it failed. As a result RWX used a cheap underhanded tactic to best over FZ.

[superboy]

I wouldn't call it cheap since it wasn't a friendly competition for fun and he wasn't using hidden weapons. Xi Xing Da Fa is one of his martial arts skills.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by superboy
I wouldn't call it cheap since it wasn't a friendly competition for fun and he wasn't using hidden weapons. Xi Xing Da Fa is one of his martial arts skills.

When we said 'cheap', we weren't referring to Xi Xing Da Fa

[superboy]

Opps, never mind. Can anyone tell me what cheap tactic he used? I remember watching it in the adaptation, but forgot.

[PJ]

The reason that Ming dynasty fighters are much weaker than Trilogy people is the inherent flaws in their techniques. DFBB, the most powerful of SOD fighters, has flaws all over the place. In ROCH, the first class fighters did not have flaws.

[superboy]

It also seem that they cannot accumulate internal energy as fast too.

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by Han Solo
A case in point was the Shaolin abbot in SOD where presumably he knows 12 Shaolin Supreme Skills. The highest recorded in all the years of Shaolin History up to the year of DGSD (excluding Damo and Janitor Monk), was only 13 skills, and that guy ended up partially crippled.

Correction: the monk who mastered 13 skills did not get crippled. the one who got crippled did not master 13 skills.

Please note that Shaolin monk Kongzhi of HSDS also knows 11 skills of the 72 Arts.

Two explanations possible:

Jin Yong Universe - During DGSD the Shaolin monks really MASTERED the skills. They concentrated on only a few arts and reach a high level. During the times of HSDS and SOD however, the monks learned more arts but on the whole their level of mastery was not as high as in earlier generations. Actually, in the novel of DGSD it was clearly stated that these monks mastered the arts, while in HSDS and SOD it was only told that these monks know these skills.

Our Reality - In the first edition of DGSD, it was actually said that the highest record of skills mastered was 23. The number of skills learned by the monks was much higher than in the revised versions. Jin Yong probably thought that these numbers were too exagerated, so he changed it in the revised editions. But the numbers in SOD etc remained the same, so to the reader it is very confusing.

This abbot in SOD was also able to write on woods.

It was only told by Qiu Chuji in ROCH that it would be difficult for Yideng to write on wood. But that is only Qiu's opinion, based on his memories of the young Emperor Duan Zhixing. It is possible that Abbot Fangzheng is better than Yideng in his 20's.

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by Laviathan
Correction: the monk who mastered 13 skills did not get crippled. the one who got crippled did not master 13 skills.

So who is the guy who got injured? And was his problem mainly due to not being enlighted?