Did Kau Cheen Jeung have *any* kung fu skills?

[Ken Cheng]

Kau Cheen Jeung, the twin brother of Iron Palm Union Chief Kau Cheen Yan, was a fraud who used his resemblance to his brother and an array of gimmicks and devices to simulate great martial arts skills and con his way through the martial world. Kau Cheen Jeung was dependent upon these gimmicks, but was he *entirely* devoid of fighting skills? Could he fight at all (albeit at a much lower level than his brother)?

[ToOn99]

I guess he knew a bit about basic of martial art.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
Kau Cheen Jeung, the twin brother of Iron Palm Union Chief Kau Cheen Yan, was a fraud who used his resemblance to his brother and an array of gimmicks and devices to simulate great martial arts skills and con his way through the martial world. Kau Cheen Jeung was dependent upon these gimmicks, but was he *entirely* devoid of fighting skills? Could he fight at all (albeit at a much lower level than his brother)?

He could fight. Just crappily.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
He could fight. Just crappily.

Could he handle the likes of Yeung Teet Sum and Gwok Siu Teen, or was he below even *their* level?

LOCH '82 had a scene of him getting beaten up by Muk Lim Chi, but I don't know if such a scene was in the novel.

[Candide]

He could beat these guys easily. He probably was at Mu Nian Ci's level.

[CFT]

Originally posted by Candide
He could beat these guys easily. He probably was at Mu Nian Ci's level.

Now that doesn't make sense! Muk Lim Chi was trained by Yeung Teet Sum, so it is not logical to conclude that Kau Cheen Jeung was at the same level as Muk Lim Chi yet able to easily beat her adopted father.

[Candide]

Originally posted by CFT
Muk Lim Chi was trained by Yeung Teet Sum, so it is not logical to conclude that Kau Cheen Jeung was at the same level as Muk Lim Chi yet able to easily beat her adopted father.

It is logical because your information is completely wrong. Mu Nian Ci learnt her kungfu from Hong Qi Gong (although she perhaps learnt something from her foster father) and Wang Chu Yi observed that her kungfu was superior to her father's.

[TaiHan]

I wonder who is older of the twin?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by Candide
It is logical because your information is completely wrong. Mu Nian Ci learnt her kungfu from Hong Qi Gong (although she perhaps learnt something from her foster father) and Wang Chu Yi observed that her kungfu was superior to her father's.

Yup. In the book, he was shocked to hear that in just a few days of training by some random old guy (Hong Qigong), her kungfu surpassed her fathers.

[TaiHan]

yea, wasn't she also really young at the time being trained.

[Laviathan]

Qiu Qianren does know martial arts. He trained Five Elements Six Harmony Palm, and he could defeat Lu Guanying of Guihun Manor quite easily.

Mu Nianci learned fighting skills from her father Yang Tiexin, but her skills were refined by Hong Qigong, and she became better than her father.

Lu Guanying killed Ma Qingxiong, one of the Four Yellow River Ghosts.

Both Lu Guanying and Mu Nianci were defeated by Yang Kang.

So, logically: one Yellow River Ghost < Lu Guanying < Qiu Qianren < Mu Nianci < Yang Kang.

[Candide]

You haven't offered any real proof/reasoning for putting LQY < QQZ (not QQR) < MNC. QQZ is definintely weaker than YK though.

[Laviathan]

You haven't offered any real proof/reasoning for putting LQY < QQZ (not QQR) < MNC. QQZ is definintely weaker than YK though.

Yep, Qiu Qianzhang... typo.

And it was clearly stated in the novel that:

Chapter 14, when Qiu Qianzhang wanted to escape from Guihun Manor, Lu Guanying tried to stop him. Qiu Qianzhang only used one palm technique and Lu Guanying fell on the ground. Jin Yong wrote: "Although Qiu Qianren (Qiu Qianzhang) is a charlatan, he does have some martial skills. Lu Guanying is no match for him."

Chapter 32, Mu Nianci told Guo Jing and Huang Rong how she beat up Qiu Qianren. She did sneak up on him from behind, but she should be somewhat better than him at the least.

Hope this clears the issue.

[Candide]

Ah I see, I forgot about those bits, thanks Laviathan. As for Mu Nian Ci vs QQZ... because she ambushed him, I'd put them as being equal

So if we use Lu Guan Ying as the middle guy, we can see that, since Yuan Zi Ping was just a little better than Lu, he would be equal to or a little weaker than Mu Nian Ci. Correct ? Seems easier now to sort the crappy fighters in LOCH