Canadian Hockey Team

[superkaratemonkey]

i dont think we'll see too many dynasties in the future, with or without a salary cap. theres just too much teams to dilute talent, even if you put 2 teams together you wont get enough talent to rival the 80s oilers, early 90s penguins, late 90s red wings, or last yrs avalanches. i think the next team that has a chance for a dynasty is the panthers (luongo, j-bo, horton, weiss, etc), or maybe thrashers (heatley, kovalchuk, coburn, lethinen).

[James Ko]

well you never know. I think the key is if you get a group of younger players (right out of the junior league) and sign them with a decent contract and they start winning... then there is a possbility... but usually players play hardest in their last year of the contract so they can sign a bigger with another team.

[peetee]

thats because they all get traded away and want more money now were in a lockout

[superkaratemonkey]

its hard to draft a group of quality young players, cuz theres so many teams to compete for now. but it also have something to do with the quality of young players, they are very good, but i dont see any gretzky/lemieux coming up (no, i dont consider crosby at that level yet) theres not even an yzerman or messier the way i see it.

[trizz251]

well if you think of it, the 84 oilers were not much when alone like just gretz alone he wasn't much but he was still something i think it's the chemisitry, they drafted gretz in the WHA and so was anderson, messier, lowe, coffey and these guys were like ok guys but their chemistry was like really good when they started playing and it was ambition that drove them all the way, look at gretz all his championships were with the oilers, messier, lowe, anderson won all their championships when they were on the same team, the oilers and the 94 rangers

[superkaratemonkey]

now dat the nhlpa start negotiating for a cap, i wonder if bryan mccabe is gonna live up to his word and sit out 4ever

[superkaratemonkey]

the 04-05 season has been officially cancelled, www.tsn.ca
i really hope bettman and greedenow gets fired, and stoned and beaten into the ground for this!

[peetee]

its going to be a awhile guys i'd say stick with the ahl

[Jere]

the 04-05 season has been officially cancelled, www.tsn.ca
i really hope bettman and greedenow gets fired, and stoned and beaten into the ground for this!

I don't think anyone is surprise about this and I don't think the majority of north american sports fan care.

Granted, hockey is a great and entertaining sports, but speaking as a fan, they really needed to shut this down and make it right again. the competitive balance of this league is rediculous and as a tampa bay lightning fan, I'm happy that they finally won, but after almost a decade of disaster. there is no consistency and most fans are paying for a product that's not even worth their time. besides, if i was an owner i wouldn't want to continue paying players when my business is sinking. players need to stop being greedy and have their salary link to revenues.

i mean, this can't be a bad thing. look at the NFL and the NBA. (MLB is a different story, but people only watch MLB because there's no football in the summer time)

[superkaratemonkey]

I don't think anyone is surprise about this and I don't think the majority of north american sports fan care.

Granted, hockey is a great and entertaining sports, but speaking as a fan, they really needed to shut this down and make it right again. the competitive balance of this league is rediculous and as a tampa bay lightning fan, I'm happy that they finally won, but after almost a decade of disaster. there is no consistency and most fans are paying for a product that's not even worth their time. besides, if i was an owner i wouldn't want to continue paying players when my business is sinking. players need to stop being greedy and have their salary link to revenues.

i mean, this can't be a bad thing. look at the NFL and the NBA. (MLB is a different story, but people only watch MLB because there's no football in the summer time)

i think most ppl are surprised by this becuz they were oh-so-close to a deal. the league finally abolish linkage, and the nhlpa finally accept the cap. the foundation was there for a deal but the numbers were just too far apart and time ran out.
im not sure this lockout will have as much impact on parity as ppl hope. sure the wings/rangers/leafs cant spend $50M more than the pens/preds/wild, but without a salary floor there'll always be a huge gap between them. and w/ a salary floor, some teams just cant afford to spend up to it. i agree w/ u about linkage, it really makes alot of sense, altho i can understand y the players would resist it.
i think if the nhl comes back (i use if becuz there is a chance it wont come back at all) they need to win fans back by making the game more entertaining. im one of the most die hard fan you'll ever find, but even i would rather do something else than to watch the wilds play hurricanes. once they solve that and the cba, they will be in good shape IMO.

[trizz251]

well i'm not a die hard fan so they gotta win me back one way or another, but that calgary tampa series, if that happens more often i'm sure all the fans will come back, haha but ya it was so close to and oh well better luck in october then

[James Ko]

According to ESPN, Bettman is still trying to savage a season.... and we should be able to get an answer today.

on a side note...

Steve Moore... now is sueing Bert, May, Crawford, and the Nuk organization... man I used to feel sorry for him but now I think he is going after greed.

[superkaratemonkey]

season is not gonna get uncancelled. according to many reporters yesterday, seems like the deal is imminent, but talks today broke down and it doesnt look good. they are now working to get a cba for NEXT october, not this season.

man, i really feel bad for moore, and i give him props for waiting until the season is cancelled to sue. BUT i hope he never play in the nhl again. call me heartless all u want, but the only reason he have the right to sue is if he can never play hockey for a living again. for him to sue and play in the future is hypocracy.
and may get sue for his "bounty" comment!?!? its not like may was the one who cause the injury, nhl players talks about revenge all the time! does that mean everytime a mccarty or pronger threaten somebody they should be sue too?? and the canucks organization, what did they do? aside from hiring bertuzzi as their player, they almost have nothing to do w/ the whole thing. and now dat mccaw is no longer the owner, is moore gonna sue the new owner?? makes no sense.

[Jere]

season is not gonna get uncancelled. according to many reporters yesterday, seems like the deal is imminent, but talks today broke down and it doesnt look good. they are now working to get a cba for NEXT october, not this season.

man, i really feel bad for moore, and i give him props for waiting until the season is cancelled to sue. BUT i hope he never play in the nhl again. call me heartless all u want, but the only reason he have the right to sue is if he can never play hockey for a living again. for him to sue and play in the future is hypocracy.
and may get sue for his "bounty" comment!?!? its not like may was the one who cause the injury, nhl players talks about revenge all the time! does that mean everytime a mccarty or pronger threaten somebody they should be sue too?? and the canucks organization, what did they do? aside from hiring bertuzzi as their player, they almost have nothing to do w/ the whole thing. and now dat mccaw is no longer the owner, is moore gonna sue the new owner?? makes no sense.

You can't use this against him. Colorado law prohibits any legal action after 1 year of the incident. And right now, no team could sign him due to the inaction of the game. If he did not file the paper work now, he would never ever get a chance again down the road.

What would you do if you're in his shoes? He's an unsign player with a very cloudy future. Head injuries are serious and any player coming back from such an injury will never be the same. For all that he knows right now, even if he'll try to play, most team will shy away from him.

He's doing the right thing for his future, his wife's future, and his children's future.

NHL players do talk about getting back at players all the time, but the act on moore is heartless. It was cheap. It was an assault on a helpless victim. That was the difference. Bertuzzi is lucky he wasn't handed jail time. The political aspect of the game was probably the only thing that saved him from any prison time. You criticize moore and think that he's just after money and that he's already making tons of money. Untrue. You can't put a price on livelihood. I'm sure moore would give all the money in this world to be normal again. Anyone would. Bertuzzi is far from being innocent and must face the civil punishment. Afterall, the court of law just handed him a slap on the wrist. He has not receive the proper punishment yet.

Your comment is truly bias, maybe cause you're a canucks fan. But this is the real world with people having real life problems that many of the public can't decipher. We dont' know how he's doing right now and probably will never, but keep this in mind, from my personal experience with many patients who have suffered head injuries, ranging from concussions to severe nerve damage, THEY ARE NEVER THE SAME AGAIN.

[superkaratemonkey]

You can't use this against him. Colorado law prohibits any legal action after 1 year of the incident. And right now, no team could sign him due to the inaction of the game. If he did not file the paper work now, he would never ever get a chance again down the road.

What would you do if you're in his shoes? He's an unsign player with a very cloudy future. Head injuries are serious and any player coming back from such an injury will never be the same. For all that he knows right now, even if he'll try to play, most team will shy away from him.

He's doing the right thing for his future, his wife's future, and his children's future.

NHL players do talk about getting back at players all the time, but the act on moore is heartless. It was cheap. It was an assault on a helpless victim. That was the difference. Bertuzzi is lucky he wasn't handed jail time. The political aspect of the game was probably the only thing that saved him from any prison time. You criticize moore and think that he's just after money and that he's already making tons of money. Untrue. You can't put a price on livelihood. I'm sure moore would give all the money in this world to be normal again. Anyone would. Bertuzzi is far from being innocent and must face the civil punishment. Afterall, the court of law just handed him a slap on the wrist. He has not receive the proper punishment yet.

Your comment is truly bias, maybe cause you're a canucks fan. But this is the real world with people having real life problems that many of the public can't decipher. We dont' know how he's doing right now and probably will never, but keep this in mind, from my personal experience with many patients who have suffered head injuries, ranging from concussions to severe nerve damage, THEY ARE NEVER THE SAME AGAIN.

lets get a few things straight b4 i continue w/ this arguement:
-i completely agree with the decision made by the BC courts in this mess, given the past ruling (from the mcsorley vs brashear case) and the nature of the sports of hockey. it mite seem like a "slap on the wrist" to some, but if anybody are charged w/ the same thing (assualt with fist) in the same situation (competitive game in a hockey rink) would've got the same sentence. according to you, what would be the proper punishment?
-i feel bad for moore, i really do. he work so hard to get to where he is, and i respect that.
-i feel moore should get financial compensation from bertuzzi IF he can never play again, for reasons i stated b4.
-i am in no way defending the action of bertuzzi in this incident. i mite be a canuck fan, but im not so blinded that i cheer everything that is done by the organization.

i have to disagree w/ a couple of things. moore was far from being helpless. was it cheap? yes. but it wasnt like moore was a sitting duck either. he can skate, had a stick in hand, and he know bertuzzi is there tugging at him the whole way, he was not helpless. it doesnt make bertuzzis action rite, but to say moore is helpless is inaccurate too.
bertuzzi got what he deserved, legally. did mcsorley got jail time? no. that was the set precedent, and just becuz the american media jumped all over the bertuzzi's case doesnt mean he should get a heavier sentence. not to mention, mcsorley attack brashear w/ a weapon, which is much worst in court than assualt w/ fists.
i did not critized moore for anything, all i said is if moore sue, he better not play in the nhl again. its his right to sue. however, if he think he can play again than he should just collect his insurance and rehab for a comeback. if he think he cant play again, then by all mean sue the pants off bertuzzi. how would you feel if he cash in on this incident (that is blown out of proportion by the media, imo) and play again in the nhl next season?
u talk about real life problem like i dunno what it means. trust me, i know. my best friend had 7 concussions and cant play again, ever. given that, i dont see how that makes any difference in the moore case. again i must remind u that, if moore cant play again in the nhl (meaning hes not the same again) he should sue. if he can play (which means he suffer temporary damages but not permanent) then he shouldnt sue. did u see brashear suing mcsorley?

bottom line, im agreeing with u, moore (given a yr of rehab and showing no sign of making a complete recovery) should sue. what we are disagreeing is, after suing, whether moore should be playing in the nhl again.

[Jere]

In the action of bertuzzi, moore was in a helpless "position" with his face and attention away from bert. If that isn't helpless then I wouldn't know what is.

If his guards were up then he wouldn't be in this position in the first place, would he?

I'm not arguing that he should earn money and play the game afterward. In the state of law in Colorada, a victim is allowed only "ONE" year to file any suit. If moore doesn't file this suit right now, then he wouldn't even know if he COULD play again in the future to make any legal adjustments.

That is the reason why his actions right now should not be deemed selfish. His cloudy future and the time restraint forced moore to file the proper paperwork.

[James Ko]

I find this lawsuit kind of stupid because Moore and his attorney is coming up with conspiricy theory about that the hit was planned... I mean this could have a huge affect on how the hockey or other sport is played. Are they going to ban strategic planning because official have a fear that it could lead to this?

I think we could all agree with Moore is doing this for personal reason (himself, his family etc). Even if this situation never happened to him, I don't think he will make as much money as he is going when he win this sue case.

[trizz251]

omg never knew moore was this kinda guy, i'll leave you guys to your hot debate i really got nothing to add to this, but i just want the NHL and NHLPA to come up with a deal and start it fresh in OCT. of 2005

[superkaratemonkey]

to me, helpless is if bertuzzi came out of nowhere and sucker punch moore w/out moore even knowing he was there. thats not the case if you saw the replay and saw bert tugging and yapping at him across the rink. clearly we differ in our definition of helpless. i dont see the point of arguing about it anymore.
also, had moore file his lawsuit in BC (which is more logical since the incident happened in vancouver) he would have a longer time period (3 yrs i believe, i could be wrong) to decide whether he can play hockey again or not. from all the report i heard, moore is done. 1 yr is a long enuff time to tell if he can play again from concussion (look at deadmarsh, allison, brent lindros). if he feels he need more time, take another yr or 2, and if he still cant play file the lawsuit then.
also, i still havent read any good reason why may and the canuck organization is being sue as well. and if he was gonna sue everybody, why doesnt he sue the nhl too?
i think if moore win this lawsuit, the nhl will be completely different from now on. there will be no more trash talking on/off the ice, no more players saying they'll want revenge, no more protecting your team's star player. if moore wins the lawsuit and plays again, many will probably follow his footstep. guys like pronger and domi are gonna get sued every wk for elbowing, slashing or roughing that causes concussions or other injuries. im exaggerating of course, but whats to stop a nathan smith from suing keith tkachuk next time tkachuk throws an elbow to smith's head and injured him?

[superkaratemonkey]

I find this lawsuit kind of stupid because Moore and his attorney is coming up with conspiricy theory about that the hit was planned... I mean this could have a huge affect on how the hockey or other sport is played. Are they going to ban strategic planning because official have a fear that it could lead to this?

I think we could all agree with Moore is doing this for personal reason (himself, his family etc). Even if this situation never happened to him, I don't think he will make as much money as he is going when he win this sue case.

this got me wondering, since moore had all but won the lawsuit (bert plead guilty in vancouver during the initial trial) how much money u think hes gonna get? i'd say he should get $2M at most. hes a 26 YO rookie last yr, played less than 1 season in the nhl (63 games) and is a fringe nhl'er who isnt expected to stick around the nhl for too long. assuming hes gonna play 4 more yrs at $500000 per, thats $2M. i honestly dont think he'll get that kind of money (specially w/ a lockout this yr he wouldnt get anything anyways, plus w/ any kind of new cba there'll be a 24% rollback) so this is the absolute max i see him getting.