Canadian Hockey Team

[superkaratemonkey]

markus naslund commented on moore's lawsuit
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=115695
he came off sounding like a jerk, specially w/ his "someone who wasnt good enough to play", but i think he made one good point (implicitly anyways). heres moore's 2 option in the lawsuit
-sue bertuzzi for loss income, pain and suffering, emotional damage, etc. by doing this he is going after the one person who actually did any harm to him.
-sue bertuzzi, may, crawford, burke and orca bay for the same thing. by doing this he is going after everybody whos remotely have anything to do with him getting injured. last i check, all may, crawford, and burke did was say things, like "that was a dirty hit on the leading scorer" and "moore should watch his back next time he plays us (canucks)". i said those same things too, as well as many of my friends, should we all get sued too?
by suing everybody, this is obviously a money grab, no more, no less.

[James Ko]

Don't get me wrong, I think Bert should be punish for what he did. Fine and suspendition is needed but I lost respect for Moore for what he is doing with the lawyers... this is what I called greed not justice.

With the money aside... I think Moore lawsuit could change the game is played. Can you imagine no one trash talking with the fear that if that person get hurt you are at fault. I mean why not just banned fighting or checking period then if someone did get hurt then they know they intend to cause harm.

Back to Moore, Naslund have a point (but a point that might not help his friend Bert) by saying Moore is not good enough to play anyways. I heard the Avs are going to release him after this season anyways. On top of that, I think he would only fit on teams as an enforcer and his main job is to check (or cheap shot) the opposite teams' best player, hense the check on Naslund earlier the season.

[superkaratemonkey]

man, the trash talkings are part of rivalries, like the stuff that was said between the avalanches and red wings in the late '90s, dats what makes it fun for all hockey fans and what makes their rivalry so intense and interesting. well thats gone now. and its not just hockey either, this sets a precedent on all pro sports in north america, becuz it redefines what you can do in the arena/rink before the court steps in.
can you believe if moore played in the '80s, if he ever throw a hit like that on gretzky or lemieux? dave semanko and kevin stevens would've literally killed him! guess semanko and stevens would've been sue all the time, haha. but in all seriousness, some of the stuff that players get away w/ in the '80s is just as brutal as the moore incident. those guys are lucky the court dont step in everytime they sucker punch a guy or elbow him and stuff.

[James Ko]

That is what I think, just like trash talking getting hurt is also part of the game... and that is the risk people have to realized and that is why some of these players get paid the kind of money they get even the no name hockey players.

[superkaratemonkey]

great minds think alike james

[Jere]

Yes, the replay showed bert following moore, but who in the right mind would imagine such an act on another individual would occur? He was helpless because

A. He could not control what bert could do.
B. He could not predict what would have happened.

Dictionary definition for Helpless: Impossible to control.

Let's see if someone as big as bert pushing your head into the ice and see if you can control the situation.

Trash talking is part of the NHL, but when a person go out of there way to take such a cheap shot deserves a slap on the face. The game wont' change because the hits will continue to come, but bert was out of line by endangering a player, a human being.

And if you guys think it's greedy, then think that way, but the guy might never have a normal lifestyle again. To me, all the wealth in this world is not worth the damage.

So what if he sues the team, he has the right to. I don't think any less of him. His career is pretty finished. What will he do for the rest of his life to support his family?

The person that I think less of is Bert and the canucks organization. Instead of shutting up there players about an act that obviously is wrong, they let players lash out and ridicule a man that's already been through hell. No signs of class and no signs of remorse makes this club look like a big fat joke.

[Jere]

Back to Moore, Naslund have a point (but a point that might not help his friend Bert) by saying Moore is not good enough to play anyways. I heard the Avs are going to release him after this season anyways. On top of that, I think he would only fit on teams as an enforcer and his main job is to check (or cheap shot) the opposite teams' best player, hense the check on Naslund earlier the season.

The point is not that he's a good player. Let someone break your neck and see if anyone could come back from that injury to even play. It's like having your dreams shattered before you and you're "helpless" to do anything about it.

[Jere]

-sue bertuzzi, may, crawford, burke and orca bay for the same thing. by doing this he is going after everybody whos remotely have anything to do with him getting injured. last i check, all may, crawford, and burke did was say things, like "that was a dirty hit on the leading scorer" and "moore should watch his back next time he plays us (canucks)". i said those same things too, as well as many of my friends, should we all get sued too?
by suing everybody, this is obviously a money grab, no more, no less.

I'm not going to answer that question cause frankly it holds no substance to support any argument. We look at two things which the organization could have done after the hit on naslund.

1. They could have stepped in and made sure everyone plays clean.

2. They could have stop reinforcing their "REVENGE" mentality onto the club.

Did they do both? No.

The act was pre-meditated and carried out. Naslund said hockey players "give and take hits". Sure, no doubt. If only bert gave a "hockey" hit then naslund wouldn't have sounded like a moron.

[superkaratemonkey]

jere, i appreciate where ur coming from, and its really nice to know that in todays world, theres still ppl like u who care so much about another person. however, i do question whether u play competitive sports at all. dont take this as a shot at u, becuz its not, but from your posts u seem kinda naive about the whole pro sport mentality. so heres my responds to some of your statements

when ur in a team, u stick together. your teammates r like brothers to u. when any of your player, let alone your best player and captain, get hit w/ a borderline elbow, u want to get him back. not really for revenge, but just to stand up for your teammate and send a warning to the other team that u wont let your friends to be pushed around. if u dont do anything about it, the other team will start taking liberty on your team. what bert and may said is normal, u think any team is gonna watch their mvp goes down w/ a dirty hit and just say "oh well"?? did u not see what the red wings said after lemieux blindsided draper? and draper was only a 4th liner back then! y would nazzy try to shut them up? the guys r sticking up 4u and ur gonna tell them to pipe down? y would crawford/burke/orca bay say anything? your players are trying to protect your best player and ur gonna shut them up? nobody can foresee what bert was gonna do, so how r they supposed to prevent it? thats the main point!

if u play on a hockey team u'll know how the canucks felt. even when our worst player get hit, our whole team gets mad, we start cursing at the other team like u wont believe, we start playing rougher and sticks start to get alittle higher. sure it sounds like its a riot out there, but everybody knows whats going on and they brace themselves for it. that is also y i say moore isnt helpless. even if u only play 1 season in any league, u KNOW when the going gets tough, u watch your back, especially when theres a 6'4 250lb guy back there!

i think the "revenge" mentality is in EVERY teams mind after EVERY game. in every game theres always a borderline hit or questionable play, and players wanna get back at each other, dats the competitive nature of pro athlete. its no different for the canucks, excect they didnt know bert is gonna snap and do what he did. by revenge, its more like a big hit, a butt-kicking in a fight, or a few face washes. to think that bert (or the canucks) planned the attack is laughable. like crawford planned to have his 2nd best player suspended, or bert planned to miss out on the playoff, or burke planned to have his highest paid player out. if it was planned may would've done the job, not bert. bert just lost it, dats it.

and if u dont think moore is suing may/crawford/burke/orca bay for monetary reason, dats your choice. the evidence and my arguement supports my point that this is a money grab, but if u rather stick your head in the sand and ignore it, thats fine. but i think most of us see it for what it is, which is good enuff 4 me.

[trizz251]

I'm not going to answer that question cause frankly it holds no substance to support any argument. We look at two things which the organization could have done after the hit on naslund.

1. They could have stepped in and made sure everyone plays clean.

2. They could have stop reinforcing their "REVENGE" mentality onto the club.

Did they do both? No.

The act was pre-meditated and carried out. Naslund said hockey players "give and take hits". Sure, no doubt. If only bert gave a "hockey" hit then naslund wouldn't have sounded like a moron.

I don't think anyone in the world can enforce this and i dont think it will ever be enforced, it's teh way the game is and i think superkaratemonkey did an awesome job of stating his point and i totally agree with him. and this applies to any other sport but there are less physical contact and if there is we usually dont' pick it up

[Jere]

I don't think anyone in the world can enforce this and i dont think it will ever be enforced, it's teh way the game is and i think superkaratemonkey did an awesome job of stating his point and i totally agree with him. and this applies to any other sport but there are less physical contact and if there is we usually dont' pick it up

so you're saying it's ok to go seek revenge on a person. You seem to don't understand the difference of giving and receiving. Yeah, no doubt, if bert gave a "hockey" hit, then this wouldn't even be an argument, but he didn't. He sucker punch someone from behind. That is an assault in ANY sport. Understand the difference before you pick sides.

[trizz251]

well the thing is when you're playing for a team and you're steam and all that, you like to seek revenge you would do it at all cost, you gotta understand what is going on in the players mind, it's all for the team to bring the team back to life, it's only a minor difference between doing the right thing and the wrong thing, i'm not agreeing that what bert did was correct but i'm just trying to say that's how it goes in the game

[peetee]

what goes on on the ice should stay on the ice IMO

[zhaozilong44]

Hey Jere,

It's been a while since you posted on a hockey related thread. Oh, in case you don't remember me, just think of the "44".

Though I'm a Nucks fan, I have to agree that Bert should be punished for his actions and the best thing for Naslund to do was not comment on the whole situation of Moore suing Bertuzzi. However, I think he's partially right. Moore
should've gone after Bertuzzi and the Canucks alone, but to include May and Burke into it is absurd. May was all talk and didn't do anything to Moore. You always have a lot of "trash talking" in sports so does that mean anyone who talks "vengeful" in sports should be sued? The difference between May and Bertuzzi is May didn't do anything other than maybe trying to goat Moore into a fight or bodychecking him.

And what does Brian Burke have to do with this? Why didn't Moore include Crawford, who basically said the same stuff Burke did. Why didn't Moore go after Granato or the Avs for putting him out there?

Anyway, I'm not as concerned about this matter as I am about the situation the league is in. From the looks of things, we're heading into oblivion and the players are mainly the ones to be blame here (even though it was the owners mistake for getting us here in the first place).

[superkaratemonkey]

Hey Jere,

It's been a while since you posted on a hockey related thread. Oh, in case you don't remember me, just think of the "44".

Though I'm a Nucks fan, I have to agree that Bert should be punished for his actions and the best thing for Naslund to do was not comment on the whole situation of Moore suing Bertuzzi. However, I think he's partially right. Moore
should've gone after Bertuzzi and the Canucks alone, but to include May and Burke into it is absurd. May was all talk and didn't do anything to Moore. You always have a lot of "trash talking" in sports so does that mean anyone who talks "vengeful" in sports should be sued? The difference between May and Bertuzzi is May didn't do anything other than maybe trying to goat Moore into a fight or bodychecking him.

And what does Brian Burke have to do with this? Why didn't Moore include Crawford, who basically said the same stuff Burke did. Why didn't Moore go after Granato or the Avs for putting him out there?

Anyway, I'm not as concerned about this matter as I am about the situation the league is in. From the looks of things, we're heading into oblivion and the players are mainly the ones to be blame here (even though it was the owners mistake for getting us here in the first place).

crawford is one of those being sued by moore

[James Ko]

I wonder if Moore will also include sueing the fans who after he hit Naslund also curse at him and threaten him while off camera...

Moore is an greedy person. He is trying to turn this suppose to be painful experience (which I agree I felt sorry for him when he got sucker punched) into a personal money generator for him... what next everytime EA NHL Hockey have someone punch him in the game... he get royalty for that too.. just sad...

[Jere]

what is so hard to understand that the damage moore received will never be enough, whether it's from bert or the canucks organization. Do you guys have any clue how much it cost to pay for hospital bills and future therapy, not to mention that he'll probably have reoccuring pains because of this.

He has every right to sue for all the money in this world. You can't put a price on someone's livelihood.

No one wants to be injured. No one will understand the pain unless they themselves have gone through it or withness it first hand.

I'm no expert but I've seen so many patients that have gone through similar injuries, ranging from nerve sheering to severe concussions.

This is no joke people. Money will never be the issue. Don't mock the guy for doing what he believes to be right for him in the long term. His life is ruin, not yours, so it's hard to understand what he's going through.

[superkaratemonkey]

what is so hard to understand that the damage moore received will never be enough, whether it's from bert or the canucks organization. Do you guys have any clue how much it cost to pay for hospital bills and future therapy, not to mention that he'll probably have reoccuring pains because of this.

He has every right to sue for all the money in this world. You can't put a price on someone's livelihood.

No one wants to be injured. No one will understand the pain unless they themselves have gone through it or withness it first hand.

I'm no expert but I've seen so many patients that have gone through similar injuries, ranging from nerve sheering to severe concussions.

This is no joke people. Money will never be the issue. Don't mock the guy for doing what he believes to be right for him in the long term. His life is ruin, not yours, so it's hard to understand what he's going through.

this is actually quite frustrating, i was hoping my recent posts would at least make u understand our position on the moore/bertuzzi lawsuit, but its like u didnt even read them!
one last time: if he want to be compensated, which he is entitled to get, sue bertuzzi. its not like bertuzzi cant afford to pay whats reasonable, i mean, the guy makes $7M/yr. but what is the point of suing may/crawford/burke/orcabay?? did they punch him from the back? did they broke his neck? did they end his career? on what bases do u sue them for then? what really ticks me off is when people say "you cant put a price on moores health" but then goes on and say he should sue so and so. if no money can buy him his health back then y the heck is he suing anyways?
his life is ruin? we'll see about that. many players came back from (multiple) concussions, many players come back from broken bones, we'll see if moore can make a similar recovery. and from what i read, its not like he have to lie in bed the rest of his life. far from it, he have no mobility problems. so hes basically dealing w/ only post concussion syndrome, which is unfortunate, but hardly rare for hockey players.

[Jere]

let someone break your neck and see if you will have a normal life again. There are the intangibles in the medical world which NO-ONE can predict or see with the obvious eyes.

He was lucky he wasn't paralyzed. In addition, brain injuries are very unpredictable and is ALWAYS a different case for different people. You can't generalize everyone who had a concussion to have the same symptoms and will make the same recovery.

If that's the case then most people with cancer who have been treated with chemo have all recovered. If only...

[James Ko]

That is why the players get paid as much as they do because hockey or professional sports does have risks. That is why in the oil rigs people get high wages because at any moment some unfortunate accident can happen to you. You said you can't put a price on livelihood well no one ask him to be a hockey player... if he wanted a safe job he could be an accountant or something. Lots of people look for fame and fortune but not at the risks involved. The hit on Moore was part of that risks plan or unplan.

After this case, can you imagine Eric Lindros' bro or others can sue everyone that check them and as a result gave them from concussions and ended a career in the NHL? Or anyone that did something to end someone's career like hacking and cause broken leg etc.... I mean this case can very lead to everyone suing everyone and that is the point.

Yes I feel sorry when he got sucker punch and yes Bert should be punished... but not the fans. You know if Moore wins who would have to pay for the money... the fans if they have a hockey seasons that is why the tickets are so expensives. Even without suing I am sure there is people who will be willing to help Moore. I mean if Nuks organiziaton have any compassion or Bert, they would donate some money to Moore for what they have done... unless they don't feel sorry for their action. There shouldn't be a lawsuit period.

Moore should be lucky he is still alive and still be able to think, move and do what he wants (maybe not playing Hockey again... but as many organization are saying even if he is healthy no one would sign him anyways). Another thing is Moore never really forgive Bert and the reason I bet is the lawyers telling him that he can make opportunity out of this. If he had forgive Bert then this lawsuit would have never taken place. I bet there will be a book out about this too and Moore will make some money from this. That is america for you... so pretty sad.