Feng Qingyang vs DFBB

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Anonymous
RWX said that FCY said LWC will be matchless if he mastered the technique.
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Actually, what FCY said was when "DGKB" reached the acme/perfection in DG9J, he defeated all his opponents:

defeat all his opponent in the Northern Plain

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by TaiHan
defeat all his opponent in the Northern Plain

No, the part about the Northern Plains was what DGQB said himself in ROCH, but in it, nothing was mentioned about DG9J.

That's why DG9J is so controversial. There's no DG9J mentioned in ROCH, and there's nothing of DGQB's history/other swords mentioned in XAJH.

[superboy]

We didn't even know if DGKB used DG9K during his younger days. And he did say that no sword is better than sword, so doesn't that mean DG9J isn't his ultimate art?

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
No, the part about the Northern Plains was what DGQB said himself in ROCH, but in it, nothing was mentioned about DG9J.

That's why DG9J is so controversial. There's no DG9J mentioned in ROCH, and there's nothing of DGQB's history/other swords mentioned in XAJH.

are you saying there is two DGQB?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by superboy
We didn't even know if DGKB used DG9K during his younger days. And he did say that no sword is better than sword, so doesn't that mean DG9J isn't his ultimate art?

Assuming he uses sword qi, what does he use it with? Maybe he uses it with DG9J, and maybe he uses it like a hammer. We just don't know. There's not enough information on it.

[Charlieboy]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
Assuming he uses sword qi, what does he use it with? Maybe he uses it with DG9J, and maybe he uses it like a hammer. We just don't know. There's not enough information on it.

a bit ot, but what is 6MSJ apart from qi sword projection? are there any moves or is it just random movements?

[Ren Wo Xing]

6MSJ is a finger-technique, in which there actually is a series of techniques for using it like a sword. But it's not sword qi.

[Charlieboy]

thanks RWX

yes i vaguely remember a debate about whether 6MSJ equated to sword qi on this board

[Anonymous]

Reasons DG9J can be attributed to DGKB:
1. Young DGKB uses regular swords and then a flexible sword, swords which are usually used by DG9J.
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2. DG9J range is limited by the sword's length, like 6MSJ has a limited reach. IronSword goes into distance attacks such as sword-chi, so is considered more advanced. And my other reasons why IronSword is better than DG9J. So, IronSword can be superior and can be a successor to DG9J. Meaning, DG9J can be a predecessor.
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3. The regular/flexible sword stage is also when DGKB DIDNT find the SnakeGallBladders yet, and so didnt go into seclusion yet and created IronSword. Meaning during this time, he could transmit orally the DG9J and other weaker stuff. This is akin to how TaiChi sword is transmitted ... orally/taught (I think) and cannot (be?) read. A reason why the "sword tomb" doesnt contain any manuals; it had to be taught from person to person. The IronSword cannot be taught cuz thats from his hiding place, the gallbladders are there, IronSword requires alot of Chi, and it's HIS method to cream opponents. DG9J derives from other peoples stuff (aka summarizing them; sword principles) to reach acme/perfection level. Meaning, YangGuo is not fortunate to meet a DG9J user. [note: YangGuo doesnt NEED DG9J cuz his experience up to the point where he learns IronSword is SIMILAR to DG9J, especially after his lessons from Madame Gongsun: read me comments in ROCH translation.]
[[[Correct me if wrong, got headache from this ]]]
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4. There is more evidence to support DG9J than any one concrete evidence than contradicts it. This is similar to DGKB as good as advertised, which have many concrete evidence and no one evidence disproves it.
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5. If its created by another person, like YangGuo, then a story will tell he created this technique in memory ... etc.
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Other arguments:
1. quote: No, the part about the Northern Plains was what DGQB said himself in ROCH, but in it, nothing was mentioned about DG9J.
--- There is no mention about the "IronSword technique" (could be called something else) itself, but YangGuo deduced it with the help of the DivineCondor ... Or it may mention DG9J with "fierce and sharp, able to penetrate anything" (regular sword) as well as "flexible ..." (purple sword).

[Anonymous]

If 6MSJ isnt sword-chi, then what is it EXACTLY/ELABORATE? Thx.

[Ren Wo Xing]

RE Anonymous:

1) Swords which are used by FQY and LHC; not necessarily what DGQB used. In XAJH, NO ONE used anything but "normal" swords.

2) Anything involves qi projection so long as one's internal energy is great enough; with enough internal energy, you can project qi with a heavy sword, with a normal sword, without a sword (palms), etc. etc. etc.

3) Wrong. Reread ROCH (I suggest either the original Chinese version or Lanny's translation. I've looked over it, and it's excellent). It's specifically stated that DGQB used the Iron Sword to "roam the entire world under heaven." Nor is DG9J derived from other people's sword styles. Both DG9J and XTJF emphasize breaking the opponent's technique; it's just that one is based on defeating their techniques through skill, and the other through blunt force. Or, to make a comparison, DG9J is a rapier, and XTJF is a mace. Finally, XTJF REQUIRES a massive amount of internal energy to use, whereas DG9J can be used with those with NO internal energy, possibly making DG9J a much more versatile weapon.

4) Don't get what you mean

5) Don't get what you mean here either

6) 6MSJ is a battlemod to YYZ; it's projected like sword qi, it's used like sword-qi, but fundamentally, it's just a more powerful YYZ that can be swung around. No previous knowledge in sword-techniques or the usage of internal energy through a sword is required at all. Sword qi is when you project through air qi just as you would with a normal sword; it's when you've gained such a master manipulation of internal energy, as well as the way energy flows through a sword, that you can use qi as a sword even without a physical medium.

[Charlieboy]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
RE Anonymous:


6) 6MSJ is a battlemod to YYZ; it's projected like sword qi, it's used like sword-qi, but fundamentally, it's just a more powerful YYZ that can be swung around. No previous knowledge in sword-techniques or the usage of internal energy through a sword is required at all. Sword qi is when you project through air qi just as you would with a normal sword; it's when you've gained such a master manipulation of internal energy, as well as the way energy flows through a sword, that you can use qi as a sword even without a physical medium.

you're convincing me that 6MSJ is sword chi

BTW in comparing DG9J with the Iron Sword, isnt it more impressive/advanced if you can defeat someone without inner energy rather than brute force?

[Ren Wo Xing]

DOH! But more seriously though, 6MSJ compared to sword qi is like comparing a throwing knife to a crossbow; sure, they attack in the same way, do damage in the same way, but there is a HUGE fundamental difference in what they are, as well as stamina, lasting power, etc. etc.

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
Assuming he uses sword qi, what does he use it with? Maybe he uses it with DG9J, and maybe he uses it like a hammer. We just don't know. There's not enough information on it.

well I'm sure that DG9J isn't created during the no sword stage. FCY said that DGQB's used the DG9J to defeat all his opponent. During the no sword stage, he was already in seclusion. And

DG9J is only a teaching material (like to how to use the sword in a correct manner, also contain all the martial art in the world). It is not supposed to be used. When he reached the no sword stage, what he use is the sword arts not heavy sword or DG9J. If he still use them, he would be limited by these techniques.

[superboy]

Are you sure 6msj is that much different than sword chi ? Other than the usage of fingers, it seems no different to me. So does it seems different in the novel?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by superboy
Are you sure 6msj is that much different than sword chi ? Other than the usage of fingers, it seems no different to me. So does it seems different in the novel?

I'm sure....simply because it requires NO knowledge of the proper channeling of qi in swords, how to use swords, etc. etc. etc. It is COMPLETELY unrelated to sword qi, except in how damage is delivered. The fingers may seem to be a small point, but that small point is massive. In all novels that I've heard of, anyone that has achieved the level of sword qi has been a superb swordsman (DGQB, XMCX, etc.).

[superboy]

We can't use GL's novel as a reference on sword chi since it's totally different to JY.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Well, to be honest, if you put it that way, we can't use most of JY's novels to compare characters within either. Yet we do it anyhow. Hell, just a while ago, we had a Tolkien vs JY

And why can't we use GL or other references? There's some basics in martial arts that transcend authors, you know. GL martial arts and JY martial arts are not utterly different. Same with LYS, etc. etc. etc.

Frankly put, the only person I've ever heard of achieving sword qi in JY's novel is DGQB, and if you are going to tell me that a pansy little boy like DY is in possession of 'sword qi' just from learning ONE technique named 6MSJ, which is based on FINGER techniques, then I think that's just crazy.

[Anonymous]

Please correct me if I'm wrong again.
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quote: 1) Swords which are used by FQY and LHC; not necessarily what DGQB used. In XAJH, NO ONE used anything but "normal" swords.

--- K, yeah was thinking about "normal" swords too (time constrained and cannot find the correct words at that time. )

quote: 2) Anything involves qi projection so long as one's internal energy is great enough; with enough internal energy, you can project qi with a heavy sword, with a normal sword, without a sword (palms), etc. etc. etc.

quote: Finally, XTJF REQUIRES a massive amount of internal energy to use, whereas DG9J can be used with those with NO internal energy, possibly making DG9J a much more versatile weapon.

--- In comparing DG9J and IronSword, Comparing DG9J which requires 20 years [Feng Qingyang estimated, I'll let it go for 10years. ] for LingHu and YangGuo who practices his IronSword for ~10 years, you tell me which is more powerful. Besides, DG9J doesnt account for super sword-powerUps and Chi, so IronSword is more distance-attack oriented (true Sword-Chi). [The Kenny Argument. ] DG9J just doesnt emphasize sword-chi/long-distance attacks as much as IronSword. As for the massive Chi needed, the snakebladders are part of the regiment for IronSword. DG9J is certainly more versatile with less requirements and is arguebly more transferable to the next person (still require a teacher), but IronSword is simply more powerful. I kinda see the progression as this: demonic in normal swords (DG9J), demonic in sword-chi (beginning:IronSword), demonic in normal/wooden swords AND sword-chi (sophisticated demon), and last "I'm done. Look momma, no swords."
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quote: It's specifically stated that DGQB [said he] used the Iron Sword to "roam the entire world under heaven."

--- This quote relates to "[Feng Qingyang said:] When senior master Dugu took on the ENTIRE MARTIAL WORLD with this set of Dugu Nine Swords many years ago, he couldn’t even find a single person that could defeat him"(Lanny's translation).
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It seems these two perspectives cannot co-exist; however here are reasons they can:
1) Note DGKB said his teenage years with a sharp normal sword is spent in the Northern Plains, but DGKB didnt mention where he went with the "Purple Sword." He could be undefeated in the Northern Plains at the end of the "normal sword" stage, at the "Purple Sword" stage, and this undefeated-ness (w/DG9J) can start a life-time of undefeated-ness that FengQingyang relates to with DG9J.
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2) The Entire Martial World and Entire World can be relative to geography and perspective. Feng Qingyang's "Entire Martial World visited by Dugu" may not be what Dugu had in mind; meaning, "Entire Martial World" could be the Northern part or the Southern part of REAL whole of Wulin.

[superboy]

Of course they have similarity since both are wuxia, but you still can't use GL's characters as reference since JY's world is a totally differnt matter.