Murong Fu vs Ling HuChong (Xiao Feng and DFBB)

[CC]

The DFBB = Great? thread got me thinking of using Xiao Feng vs MRF/YTZ as a basis of judging DFBB.

Xiao Feng vs MRF+YTZ = rough draw (but I think XF would win
eventually, I mean can you even imagine these 2 losers beating the incomparable Xiao Feng??)

DFBB vs RWX + LHC + XWT + RYY = relatively easy win for DFBB if not for unfair distraction.

Lets kick out XWT and RYY to make things simpler. Now surely DFBB can kick just RWX and LHC?

Now if we compare RWX and YTZ, surely RWX is a better all rounded fighter then YTZ? YTZ would have better energy but RWX is a skilled all round fighter and kung fu genius. YTZ is very strong if you don't realise his weakness and clash head on palms with him, but once you know his weakness he should be easy to KO.

LHC vs MRF is an interesting one, the man of many techniques vs the man who defeats techniques without one. The star shifter vs dugu 9 swords should be a most interesting sight! Can you defeat a fighter who overcomes techniques with no technique by using a technique that copies and redirects his skill?

I suppose that one could argue that MRF can copy LHC's DG9J all he wants but he would always be one move behind LHC since he has to copy/re-direct after LHC executes but LHC can change to another attack while MRF is executing his Star Shifter. I don't have that high an opinion of LHC and I do think MRF is quite good even by DGSD standards. But LHC's DG9J seems to be a nice technique to beat MRF with.

Now toss in XWT and even RYY and DFBB is starting to look pretty powerful right?

OK I know some would say that LHC beating MRF doesn't mean the same thing when fighting XF or DFBB but I am just generalising.

[superboy]

I thought that XF will eventually lose if he fight YTZ+MRF when he runs out of energy.

And personally, I think I would rate MRF higher than LWC., since it was described MRF was only slightly less skilled than XF right? Although we know that he will still get creamed by XF with no problem.

[linghuchong]

i agree with CCs explanation as everyone seems to "underestimate" DFBB.

Being able to defeat RWX, LHC, XWT and RYY is amazing, even XF might have a hard time and we all rank XF as someone who is initialy higher in martial arts then the greats but then everyone seems to think that DFBB has not reached a greats level....

IMO, DFBB is roughly somewhere between XF and the greats, but then again, thats just my opinion.

[CC]

Originally posted by superboy
I thought that XF will eventually lose if he fight YTZ+MRF when he runs out of energy.

.

He thought that he would lose too, but that was before he realised YTZ's weakness. Later in the fight he found out and broke YTZ's legs easily.

[superboy]

Could we see the RWX, LWC, and XWT's combination a bit lower than the 3 Shaolin Elders that ZMK needed to face, mainly because XWT is probably not up that high. I'm not too sure how RWX and LWC would compare to them though. ZMK managed a tie with the three elders without their formation right? And ZMK is sort of lesser fighter than the greats during fights. So ummm..., so at least I don't think DFBB is greater than the Greats, or near XF.

[tape]

Originally posted by superboy
. ZMK managed a tie with the three elders without their formation right? And ZMK is sort of lesser fighter than the greats during fights. So ummm..., so at least I don't think DFBB is greater than the Greats, or near XF.

If you use that as a basis, that means DFBB is much better than the Greats. ZMK managed a tie, but DFBB easily defeated them, it was no contest.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by tape
If you use that as a basis, that means DFBB is much better than the Greats. ZMK managed a tie, but DFBB easily defeated them, it was no contest.

Different era, different Shaolin Elders.

[CC]

Fang Zhen was considered quite a martial genius by Shaolin standards. And he was about RWX level.

I would think the SOD abbot is not inferior to the HSDS elders individually.

LHC with DG9J is pretty deadly and XWT was a respectable fighter too.

So I really think DFBB is at least as good as a Great.

[Han Solo]

MRF's superiority in inner power plus his talent in numerous weapons will overwhelmingly defeat LWC.

[ChronoReverse]

Except by the end of SoD, LHC not only has quite a large reserve of internal energy from his draining kung fu, he also started training YJJ. So you can't say that MRF automatically has a much greater inner energy reserve than LHC.

Although MRF, more likely than not, has more internal energy than LHC, what prevents LHC from draining him dry?

[CC]

I would think that at the DFBB fight, MRF had more inner energy. But it just seems to me that LHC's DG9J is quite a perfect tool against MRF's many many techniques. MRF was not described as incredibly fast (the one thing that seems to stop LHC from capitalising on weaknesses he can spot).

Oh and MRF was quite significantly behind Xiao Feng in inner energy. When he tried to chase XF and XYS, the inner power difference was very obvious to the crowd.

[superboy]

Just how good is DG9K against MRF? SInce he got so many various techniques, it will probably be difficult to pin point his weaknesses when he switches so much. Unless you overwhelm him with more skill or internal energy.[QUOTE]

If you use that as a basis, that means DFBB is much better than the Greats. ZMK managed a tie, but DFBB easily defeated them, it was no contest.

Not neccessary, because it is uncertain that the combination could be worst than RWX, LWC, and XWT. XWT is a good fighter, but seems to will probably fell to compare to the three shaolin elders individually. And ZMK's combat ability seems to be not on par with the Greats. If DFBB is at Greats level, then does that mean that ZMK could possibly lose to him???

[Ren Wo Xing]

There is a passage by FCY that might just apply (translated by Lanny; I'm doing lazy to translate the passage myself).

"If you only rigidly adhere to formalities without adding your own lively elements, even if you have mastered thousands or tens of thousands unique moves, as soon as you encounter a true elite master hand, he would still be able to overcome every single one of them.”

As many techniques as MRF has, they each have their own weaknesses; to a person like LHC, it doesn't matter how many different stances MRF has; so long as MRF uses a stance, he can break it.

[superboy]

Of course that is true, but I sort of rate MRF higher than LWC. DG9J has it's only set of theories and also it's own 9 stances too, but it still rely on the users abilty to find weaknesses and adapt. So could LWC really see through the weaknesses, we don't know. The Jade Flute Sword, Dog Beating Stick, and YG+XLN sword play all had their stances, and it isn't that easy to find it's weaknesses when you're against them.

[Han Solo]

The thing is that MRF also know palm based techniques that are rather nice. While LHC occasionally are able to perform Palm-Breaking Stance in SOD, would he be able to withstand MRF's blow? Plus how well is he familiar with the final few stances of DG9J?

[rabadi]

Since MRF knew so many techniques, is it possible that he could also imitate the stances of DG9J?

[Ren Wo Xing]

LHC's palm-breaking stance was imperfect, and his knowledge of chii-breaking stance was theoretical.

DG9J cannot be imitated. First of all, MRF's knowledge of "all martial arts under heaven" (save 6MSJ, YYZ, YJJ) was based upon having STOLEN all those martial arts manuals and learned it within, not from any sort of visual learning or innate super-intelligence. Secondly, DG9J is a way of fighting as much as a stance; in fact, FQY recommended to LHC that once he truly understood DG9J, it would be okay to forget all of the original stances.

And you are correct, it IS based on the user's ability to see and find weaknesses, which is based on intelligence...and LHC is one of THE most intelligent people around. Just look at his learning of DG9J.

[TristeCoeur]

MRF knew lots of things but could only perform the crappy ones to perfection. He sucked at the rest.

Name his best skills. Well he only had one: the Shifting Stars, which is useless against opponents with equal or higher inner power. The rest of his skills looked pretty, but that's it. Good for showing off to n00bs though.

[zhouyu]

I think everyone is underestimating Murong fighting abilities, he also is a very skilled martial artists, and is one of the top fighters in DGSD, how many people can beat him DGSD?
only a handful
and of those that can beat him, most are a lot older than him, thats why they have higher internal energy, the ones that are the same age or younger are all due to the result of stupid luck, so basically he was stronger than anyone in the novel that was his age and without stupid energy jumps from draining 270 years of internal energy except for Xiao Feng, who was older by a few years and also the greatest martial arts talent in Jin Yong history.

[Meh]

I think everyone is underestimating Murong fighting abilities, he also is a very skilled martial artists, and is one of the top fighters in DGSD, how many people can beat him DGSD?

The problem is that MRF folds against those who are quite skilled. LHC most likely have less inner power than MRF, but it's not certain that Art of Shifting Stars can be used against LHC. Jiu Mo Zhi can simply clobber him by using all techniques halfway, so MRF has no place to start his "shifting". LHC's DGJ9 has not set techniques and flow effortlessly w/o seemingly any pattern. I'm not sure if MRF can find a way to throw the stuff back at LHC. And MRF is a lot crappier without his signature move.

the ones that are the same age or younger are all due to the result of stupid luck

If MRF hadn't been born into the MuRong family, and supposed that he "found" Art of the Shifting Stars as well as the cave with all the different sects' martial arts. Then turned into the MRF in DGSD. Would he be successful due to "stupid luck" too?

Let's not just assume that MRF's success is actually based all on his own work. Just like Dubya didn't exactly become president due mainly from his own hard work.