Martial arts comparison between DGSD era and LOCH/ROCH era

[TigerWong]

I haven't read that one, but you should pose your query here cause there are several here that have I think (i.e. Athena, Meh, Moin..)

[Floo..]

Ouah, so advanced!!!! Feels like a peasant girl that watch Hua Shan Tournament...

*scurrying to a dark corner*

[Twisted Mind]

I have a question: Do you guys make comparison according to JY's novels or according to the adaptions of JY's novels?

[minutemanwayne]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><table border="0" width="80%" bgcolor="#dcdcdc" cellspacing="1" cellpadding="1"><tr><td width="100%"><table border="0" width="100%" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10" bgcolor="#DCDCDC"><tr><td width="100%" bgcolor="#eeeeee"><font size="1">Originally posted by Twisted Mind:
<STRONG>I have a question: Do you guys make comparison according to JY's novels or according to the adaptions of JY's novels?</STRONG></font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></BLOCKQUOTE>

The novels of course.

[Ghaleon]

<IMG SRC="smilies/clap.gif" border="0">

Congrats to all the posters who put LOT of effort into this intense debate!

I just wanted to say, that "sometimes" arguing novels is kinda pointless. The novels were created by a human being and a human being is not perfect. So there's bound to be inconsistencies in the novels.
I think each of the novels is its own universe.

We're arguing the imaginations of an author. Only the author knows how the fighters compare. Nobody else really.
If Jin Yong changes his novel again then this whole argument is moot.

[PJ]

Whenever I have spare time, this topic is always a pleasure to revisit. It's so interesting, and I even read the long debates word by word.

[superboy]

I love martial arts comparison topics. But every time topics like this or GJ vs YG never have a definite answer.

[Shirley]

OMG, I just tried to read all the first posts and it was really long. You guys pay attention to the smallest details. Very thoughtful arguments!

[superboy]

OMG, I just tried to read all the first posts and it was really long. You guys pay attention to the smallest details. Very thoughtful arguments!

Yeah, I was almost seeing stars by reading all those the first time when I wasn't familair with the novels. I the names of the characters comfusses me.

[PJ]

Question: did Jiu MoZhi do his gentle talk in Celestial Temple or Shaolin temple?

[superboy]

Question: did Jiu MoZhi do his gentle talk in Celestial Temple or Shaolin temple?

Yeah, he did it while showing off in front of the shaolin monks.

[PJ]

did Jiu MuoZhi do the gentle talk in Celestial Temple too?

[superboy]

did Jiu MuoZhi do the gentle talk in Celestial Temple too?

I don't remember, but he might have since he's such a show-off

[PJ]

After a few weeks, I finally read EACH ONE of the posts in this monstrous-layered topic. It is by far the most intellectual JY debate I have read. The arguments are fully supported by reasons and texts. Although Athena and Kenny are no longer with us, sadly (on this forum), I feel like the debate should continue, albeit not about JMZ vs Yi Deng, XF vs JueYuan, or LDA vs LDS

About the question whether Shi Potian > LOCH's Greats, someguy44 wrote:

To TigerWong, yes you're right in saying that Kenny used basically the same reasoning for rating Sat Por Tin and again I don't like it. I just don't like people automatically assuming Sat Por tin to be ranked so high when there's no clear evidence to show how good the two lords are when compared with other top fighters of other eras.

I believe Shi Potian > Greats, from what I have read. Shi Potian is much more powerful than either Lord Long or Mu of Xiake Island, as their power combined is no threat to SPT. About the skills of these 2 lords, Laviathan wrote that they were powerful enough to block the gate of Shaolin, and no one could enter or leave. To me that says a lot about these 2 men.

Lav ranked Long and Mu in the same level as JMZ and the Greats of LOCH. While I think that rank may be too high, consider this analysis: Ode to Gallantry's setting roughly =~ that of Smiling Proud Wanderer (Ming dynasty). The Shaolin abbot of SPW, Fangzheng, is probably a class or two below the Shaolin abbot of DGSD, XuanCi. I assume the shaolin abbot of OTG is about the same as Fangzheng. Since JMZ soundly defeated the best monks of Shaolin in DGSD, I believe two JMZs could block the Shaolin gate just like Mu and Long. Now pick a fighter a class or two below JMZ to compensate for the inferior martial arts of OTG's shaolin monks - take Ding Chunqiu for example. I assume that two Ding Chunqiu's would be enough to block the Shaolin gates in OTG, based on the skill comparison of the Shaolin abbots from DGSD and OTG.

Thus I make the assumption that Lord Long/Mu =~ Ding Chunqiu. They attacked SPT with all their might, but SPT still killed them. I don't know any more details about the length of the fight, but I can't see an expert like Xiao Feng killing two fighters in Ding Chunqiu's class very easily. For example, Xiao Feng had trouble defeating MuRong Fu + You Tanzhi. Of course, Xiao Feng >>> Ding Chunqiu, MuRong Fu, etc... So, I assume Shi Potian =~ Xiao Feng.

I also believe that Xiao Feng > Greats of LOCH by a long shot. If you also believe this, then there is reason to believe that SPT > Greats. I have made a lot of assumptions based on Laviathan's ULTIMATE JY RANKING and the Deterioation Theory, but I believe they should be close to accurate. I welcome any criticism, comments, etc.

[PJ]

In a nutshell, I think whether you believe Shi Potian > Greats depends on whether you believe Xiao Feng > Greats. If you believe Xiao Feng > Greats, then there is reason to believe SPT > Greats, as SPT =~ XF, which I have demonstrated briefly.

I have not proved anything, as usual. And I know that in Laviathan's opinion, SPT >> XF > Greats. That would be accurate if Lord Long and Mu were as powerful as JMZ, but we do not know that for a fact, and I suspect the two lords are more on par with Ding Chunqiu, Duan Yanqing, etc. But, for all we know, they COULD potentially be as good as JMZ or even experts like MuRong Buo. However, seeing Ode to Gallantry is from the same dynasty as Smiling Proud Wanderer and the the most powerful fighter in the latter is DFBB, who is considerably weaker than experts like MuRong Buo and JMZ BUT way ahead of anyone from Shaolin at that time, I doubt the two Lords of Ode to Gallantry are any better.

[Han Solo]

bump

[CC]

Originally posted by Athena
And again he used "Kang Long You Hui" the latter palm pushing the former palm forward. The combining energy of 2 palms was crashing down on Ding who stood now 12 metres away from him. If 2 palms combined can reach about 12 metres, then the energy of one palm is only the half so can "only" reach 6 metres. Right?
So in other words the discrepancy between Xiao Feng andJinLun FaWang, reverend YiDeng's range isn't that big.

That is only if you make the assumption that palm enery dissipates linearly (e.g. two 6m strikes equal one 12m strike) and that Xiao Feng used multiple palms _only_ to increase his range. Maybe one single palm of Xiao Feng could have struck out over 20m but he used 3 strikes to increase his power.

BTW, this thread is giving me a migraine. OUCH.

Just for the record :

I think XF > The Greats >= ZWJ

Shi Po Tian certainly looks like #1, but since I hate the way he learnt his skills (the whole idea of learning such power from a poem sucks) I totally disregard Ode To Gallantry in my personal JY world.

[Tian Cai]

i don't think zia ke sin could be in the same world as the others like dgsd,condor trilogy or hsds,xiao aso jiang hu. it's liek from a different universe.

[Laviathan]

Bump bump bump

[superboy]

People from DGSD is much stronger than the guys in the Condor Trilogy, no need to agrue about that.