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Thread: the best internal energy

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    Default the best internal energy

    i remember someone asking a while back what the greatest internal energy kungfu ever was. well, it's obviously between these 3 techniques:

    1. yik gun ging (or YJJ for those familiar with the acronyms)

    2. 9yin

    3. 9yang

    i hesitate to throw in YG's internal training with swords and waves, because that's more of a training regimen and less of a specified kungfu manual. correct me if i'm wrong, tho...

    ----

    9yin definitely shines in the first 2/3rds of the condor trilogy, namely LOCH and ROCH. HSDS is set up for 9yang, while both XAJW (smiling proud wanderer) and DGSD both hold YJJ in high regards. now, i think a lot of us are more familiar with 9yin/yang than we are with YJJ. here are a few words from abbot fangzheng in XAJW about YJJ:

    "Fang-Zheng continued, “The Tendon Altering Sutra Kung Fu utilizes all the channels, passages of one’s body and bonds the spirits of the five internal organs. Comprehensive yet does not disperse, cycling through yet incessant. Energy originates from the within, while blood nourishes from the outside. Once the practitioner masters the Tendon Altering Sutra Kung Fu, power can be launched at a change of thought. The assembly and the release become part of a natural course, and complete themselves without conscious commands, just like the rising of the tide or the exploding of the thunder. Young hero, once one masters the Tendon Altering Sutra, it is almost like a small boat floating among gigantic waves of the ocean. When the angry waves surge about, the small boat naturally moves high and low accordingly, never makes an effort. Even if the boat had wanted to make an effort, where would the strength be coming from and where would the strength be used upon?”"

    sounds pretty crazy. i remember someone asking me in the YG vs. GJ debate whether someone could have internal energy that could be utilized for ANYTHING, just thrown out there to power any kind of kungfu. by abbot fangzheng's description, YJJ seems to be it. if this is true, then YJJ certainly poses an advantage over 9yang/yin, which is catered to only one side of internal energy.

    thoughts?
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Charlieboy's Avatar
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    doesn't the Xiao Yao(sp?) Pai's internal energy techniques make it into the premier division then?

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    good point, i had almost forgotten about them. the problem with XYP, though, is that we're never specifically told HOW they got their profound energy...undoubtedly through xiao yao techniques, but we can't name them. it's for sure profound, or else their palm stance wouldn't be so great...but i didn't put it in the list because i have no way of saying what it is. i might as well say buddha's internal energy is the best (that's an exaggeration, of course).

    correct me if i'm wrong, people....
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Well, the Xiao Yao energy can be used to power everything too.

    And Bei Ming Shen Gong definitely ranks right up there. I would put it as even better then 9 Yang. The DGSD YJJ is an enigma since no one in the book ever mastered it.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Default Re: the best internal energy

    [QUOTE]Originally posted by sixdays
    [B]i remember someone asking a while back what the greatest internal energy kungfu ever was. well, it's obviously between these 3 techniques:

    1. yik gun ging (or YJJ for those familiar with the acronyms)

    2. 9yin

    3. 9yang





    I don't think you could put 1 together with 2 and 3 on the same 'level'. I always felt/thought 2 and 3 as a 'formless' (except down to the basic forms of yin & yang) kind of internal energy, a kind of generic/general form of internal energy. You could use 2 and 3 to enhance almost 'any' particular form of internal energy you may have (exception: they conflict). They are a kind of 'mother yin/father yang' of all particular internal energies. Like Guo Jing enhancing his own Quan Zhen type of internal energy with 9yin. Hahaha, this would probably start a new discussion thread about 'formless internal energy'


    '(Particular) Forms' of internal energy are the others, like:
    YJJ, BMSG, XWSG etc.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    BHLHWWDZG (I love that name) is also an excellent internal energy (it was the especial choice of TSTL, arguably the second best fighter in TLBB, under the Sweeper Monk), as is Xiao Wu Xiang Gong. Any one of those, plus Bei Ming Shen Gong, would probably reign supreme. It's quite nice because any one of the first two can be used in CONJUNCTION with Bei Ming Shen Gong, allowing them to not only have natural growth (and massive at that), but also to drain away the energies of others, and gain even -more- internal energy that way (for example, Duan Yu).

    If Xu Zhu had learned BMSG (instead of merely being protected by Bei Ming Zhen Qi), he would have been even more of a monster.

    Yi Jing Jing has compatibility issues, 9 Ying is best learned (especially the internal energy points) with a Taoist internal energy base, and 9 Yang, although generating a lot of internal energy, can be defeated by shards of Ying-type energy. The only ones that are flawless and multi-usable belong to Xiao Yao Pai.

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    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    ranking of Bei Ming would really vary b/c it doesn't self cultivate. Unless there were ppl's energy for you to suck, practicing Bei Ming wouldn't quite get you anywhere. But of course, there are plenty of ppl out there to suck...but i think results will vary depending on who you suck up.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    That's where you are wrong. Bei Ming Shen Gong is actually a quite thorough internal energy formula; the absorption is only one aspect of it.

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    to ren wo xing:

    could you show some examples as to where bei ming shen gong is more than just internal energy vampirism? granted, it's a great technique...i wish i had it too. i just don't recall it being a total technique.

    also, about the compatibility issues of YJJ...my understanding of YJJ is that it opens all the internal energy channels in your body, therefore being called the tendon altering formula. usually, internal energy cultivation is required to follow several routes in the body; but with YJJ, you are able to make all the routes into one big highway. that's why if LWC actually learned YJJ then he wouldn't have to suffer from all the internal energy going different ways, because it would become a big pool in his body...and that would be pretty crazy indeed. i don't see how YJJ has compatibility issues, while bei ming shen gong requires you to periodically take internal energy from other ppl to replenish yourself.

    good theories, keep it coming...
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    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
    That's where you are wrong. Bei Ming Shen Gong is actually a quite thorough internal energy formula; the absorption is only one aspect of it.
    AFAIK or understand it, Bei Ming does not have any enrgy genration capicity. It can transfer energies but htat's about it.

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    Default Re: Re: the best internal energy

    Originally posted by Du Gu seeking a win
    Hahaha, this would probably start a new discussion thread about 'formless internal energy'


    '(Particular) Forms' of internal energy are the others, like:
    YJJ, BMSG, XWSG etc.
    just a thought
    I wonder should it even be called form. because internal energy isn't a form and doesn't even have shape. there are only types. So it should be call typeless(but it is not even a word) internal energy.

  12. #12
    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    That is correct. Form or formlessness deals more with external techniques and how they are being used.

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I'll pick the YJJ of DGSD as #1. And 9 Yin as number two. I can't really decide whether 9 yin or 9 Yang is better, but since 9 Yin can help u improve your techniques such as GJ's HL18Z, Ithink it's more useful.
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    I would go for 9 yin!

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superboy
    I'll pick the YJJ of DGSD as #1. And 9 Yin as number two. I can't really decide whether 9 yin or 9 Yang is better, but since 9 Yin can help u improve your techniques such as GJ's HL18Z, Ithink it's more useful.
    it's true that 9yin can be incorporated into your kungfu, but 9yang allows you to accumulate internal energy much faster -- after all, we all pretty much agree that a 25 year old ZWJ's internal energy is comparable to GJ and YG. if two people train with 9yin and 9yang respectively, you'd probably see person B have more internal energy but person A much more refined with his internal energy. 9yin and 9yang both have their advantages...

    however, i think the internal energy type most suited to an ADVANCED learner like XF, GJ, YG etc would still be YJJ. after all, it breaks out ALL of your internal energy channels...not only is it a manual teaching you how to cultivate internal energy, it's actually a technique that changes your physiology. this means that if you learn YJJ, you could safely learn 9yang, 9yin, bei ming shen gong, or ANY other type of internal energy and it would be fine, no fire deviation.

    dude, you could become like shi potian...
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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    9 Yang does not allow a person to accumilate energy faster than 9 Yin. It took Juen Yuen decades to accumilate the energy level of ZWJ. ZWJ mastered 9 Yang so fast mainly due to his incident where he was stucked inside the bag. Or it would have taken him much longer to accumilate his internal energy to that level.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    hmm i see. well then the only other advantage that i can see to 9yang is that it can be the power source for all kungfu, while 9yin can only complement existing internal energy. was there anyone besides huang shang who learned 9yin by itself?

    actually, i don't even know if huangshang used 9yin EXCLUSIVELY, or had some other kungfu base...

    blame my lack of knowledge about JY literature
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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    If I am not mistaken, I believe that 9 Yin has its own set of internal energy cultivation. It doesn't serve as just a component unless the user decided to use it like how GJ combined it with his HL18Z.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  19. #19
    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    i think i really don't know enough about 9yang, because i can't really see an obvious trait of it that's better than 9yin. it helps also that 9yin was featured in way more books than 9yang was.

    can anyone fill me in on 9yang?
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    Senior Member Du Gu seeking a win's Avatar
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    Default Type and Form

    Originally posted by TaiHan
    just a thought
    I wonder should it even be called form. because internal energy isn't a form and doesn't even have shape. there are only types. So it should be call typeless(but it is not even a word) internal energy.


    Originally posted by Han Solo
    That is correct. Form or formlessness deals more with external techniques and how they are being used.




    The problem is, that types (in that sense) can only go/exist with its corresponding forms.


    Type is a CLASSIFICATION and what you classify must show itself through a kind of form.

    The kind of forms may be internal or external.

    Examples:
    1. You have in mind (in math) a 6th dimensional structure, this is internal form isn't it?

    2. How could XZ classify JMZ's internal energy as XWXG? Probably through its external(!) form.

    Back to 'formless' Kung Fu. I believe it really should be classified as 'typeless' KungFu. Formless here means NOT ONE form, it has MANY/infinite forms but one cannot recognize a (fixed) pattern, one cannot designate a type to that kind of KungFu.


    A fight between A and B.

    A: uses 'formless' KungFu, he shows an (infinite) variety of stances/variants/forms of ideas/motifs.

    B: cannot see a (fixed) pattern of all those forms, he cannot classify it to a certain type of KungFu. From his viewpoint it is a formless/typeless KungFu.


    Summary:
    A type must have a form/forms

    whereas

    Forms recognized as a type or not depend on the viewer. Think of the Shaolin monks not recognizing XWXG.

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