Shaolin Generation Surnames in Jin Yong's novels

[rabadi]

In many Jin Yong's novels such as DGSD, HSDS, SOD, OtG, DOMD, etc., Shaolin is very often mentioned. Sometimes the top monks were surnamed Kong like in HSDS, surnamed Fang in SOD, etc. Question: What are all Shaolin generation surnames and how do they rank?

[Han Solo]

In DGSD, the monks were named Xuan, Hui, Xhu, Kong. Within each generation, everyone shared the same midname.

[Guo Xiang]

And those weren't surnames. ^^

[sixdays]

i think rabadi obviously means the midname or shaolin school generational name here.

i suggest you find out what sweeper monk's generational name is...therein you shall find the strongest shaolin fighters of all.

happy hunting

[Ken Cheng]

These midnames apparently get recycled every few generations too. The Yeun (i.e. "Xuan") midname was used in both DEMIGODS AND SEMIDEVILS and HEAVEN SWORD AND DRAGON SABRE.

[rabadi]

So, there are actually no ranks? You mean that those names are merely just generation names? For example, Xu Zhu came from Xu surname (or middle name, or whatever ). So, after DGSD era there would be a Shaolin leader from Xu generation?

[Han Solo]

The names get recycled.

Yes, eventually sometime after DGSD, someone from the Xhu/Xu generation would be the abbot.

[Candide]

They are not really recycled.

They are based on a Buddhist poem (I have the Vietnamese version but wouldn't make much sense to most people here). When Shaolin moves on to a new generation, they will get the next word in that poem as their Buddhist prefix. Some words in that poem get repeated, some read the same but write differently. There are 72 words in that poem if I remember correctly. At least it's a multiple of 9 (9 is the Buddhist number).

As for surname, all Buddhist monks have one surname - the surname of Buddha (in Vietnamese, it's Thich).

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Candide
They are not really recycled.

They are based on a Buddhist poem (I have the Vietnamese version but wouldn't make much sense to most people here). When Shaolin moves on to a new generation, they will get the next word in that poem as their Buddhist prefix. Some words in that poem get repeated, some read the same but write differently. There are 72 words in that poem if I remember correctly. At least it's a multiple of 9 (9 is the Buddhist number).

As for surname, all Buddhist monks have one surname - the surname of Buddha (in Vietnamese, it's Thich).

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It numbers 70, not 72. But did JY followed that name order? I don't think so, since I can't find the character Fang of Fang Shen/Fang Sheng (monks in SOD)


Menu/View/Encoding/Chinese Traditional


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Shaolin Generation Poem

The Shaolin Generation Poem is a poem written by the Yuan Dynasty Shaolin Abbot Fu Yue. Each of the 70 characters of the poem are now used as generation names (the first character of each monk's name) starting from Fu, the first character of Fu Yue's own monk name. The surname of each monk is considered to be 'Shi.' All monks of a single generation therefore have the same first character of their names. Thus, a truly knowledgeable scholar of Shaolin should be able to know instantly what generation any monk belongs to simply by hearing his name.

The poem is given in its entirety below:

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The same poem written entirely in Pin-Yin is as follows:

Song1 Shan1 Shao3 Lin2 Si4 Cao2 Dong4
Zheng4 Zong1 Chuan2 Xu4 Qi1 Shi2 Zi4 Bei4 Jue2

Fu2 Hui4 Zhi4 Zi2 Jue2
Liao3 Ben3 Yuan2 Ke3 Wu4
Zhou1 Hong2 Pu3 Guang3 Zong1
Dao4 Qing4 Tong2 Xuan2 Zu3
Qing1 Jing4 Zhen1 Ru2 Hai3
Zhan4 Ji4 Chun2 Zhen1 Su4
De2 Xing2 Yong3 Yan2 Heng2
Miao4 Ti3 Chang2 Jian1 Gu4
Xin1 Lang3 Zhao4 You1 Shen1
Xing4 Ming2 Jian4 Chong2 Zuo4
Zhong1 Zheng4 Shan4 Xi1 Xiang2
Jin3 Zhi4 Yuan2 Ji4 Du4
Xue3 Ting2 Wei2 Dao3 Shi1
Yin3 Ru3 Gui1 Xuan4 Lu4


* * *

Only the holy person can understand the way, then one may attain wisdom and bliss.

Using the whole to see the principles, you may understand the way.

We must spread Chan like rays of sun all over the world.

All the branches of Buddhism celebrate the same root.

Clarity and stillness are deep as the sea.

When you abandon attachments, your true face emerges.

Only virtue is never ending,

Your pure heart never changes.

When your heart is still, its brightness will dispel the darkness.

Your true natures is the highest.

If you are loyal, upright and kind, you will receive happiness and peace.

Always remember your Buddha heart.

Following the spirit of Huike,

This is the way to Buddhahood.


* * *

http://www.geocities.com/echaecha/sh...ationpoem.html

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/maga...hp?article=152

Shaolin Generation Poem

Source: Meet the Abbots - The Eminent Monks of Shaolin Temple by Shi Deqian, Gigi Oh and Gene Ching, Kungfu Qigong Spring 2000 (C) 2000 Kungfu Qigong Magazine & KungfuMagazine.com, used by permission.

www.KungfuMagazine.com

http://www.shaolinwolf.com/Buddhism/poem.htm

[Du Gu seeking a win]

¶

To compare, I give here the eras of JY's work. They are mostly after the Yuan era.




http://www.geocities.com/jyheros/chronology.html


Sword of the Maiden: During the Spring and Autumn period, centuries before the birth of Christ. (Around 400 BCE)

Demi Gods Semi Devils: Northern Song Dynasty; A.D. 1091~1093

Legend of the Condor Heroes: Southern Song Dynasty; A.D. 1199~1227

Return of the Condor Heroes: Late Southern Song Dynasty; A.D. 1237~1260

Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre: Late Southern Song (first few chapters) Subsequent chapters occur in late Yuan; A.D. 1260~1367

State of Divinity: The existence of Ngor Mei Sect and Mo Dong Sect put SOD firmly in the Ming Dynasty era . . . probably quite early since there isn't even a hint of a Manchurian threat.

Ode to Gallantry: Mid Ming- This is definitely post-Yuan as there is a WuDang Sect. I simply conclude it was in the Ming rather than the Ching because of the lack of ethnic struggles against the Manchus and there's no mention of any queues. Ode to Gallantry could actually have occurred before SOD, but I place HHH after SOD because I don't remember any mention of the existence of the Sun Moon Sect or the 5 Mountain Sects in the novel.

Sword Stained With Royal Blood: Late Ming; 1633~1644

Duke of Mount Deer: Early Qing Dynasty, during Emperor Kangxi's reign which is A.D. 1667~1689

Legend of the Book and Sword: Early Qing during Emperor Qian Long's reign; A.D. 1753~1758

Adventures of Young Flying Fox: Early-Mid Ching. About 10 years after "Book and Sword" A.D. 1764~1768

Flying Fox of Snow Mountain: Mid Ching. About 7 or 8 years after "Young Flying Fox" A.D. 1780 (Note: The time period of this story taken place was only two days)

White Horse Neighing in West Wind: Mid to ate Ching- This is definitely Ching, but it is impossible to be any more specific than that. The only clue is that the story is said to occur over 1000 years after Tang Tai Jung Lee Sai Mun's (2nd Tang Emperor) reign. This story could have occurred during any time in the Ching Dynasty.

Yin Yang Sabre: Mid to late Ching- Definitely Ching again, though I can't remember the Emperor's name being mentioned, so can't say where exactly this story falls in the timeline.

Secret of Linked Cities: Late Ching- I think this is Late Ching because Jin Yong includes a brief note at the end about the novel being inspired by his boyhood servant, whom JY's grandfather saved from prison during the late Ching. Also, the pictures in the novel shows people with queues.

[rabadi]

Whoa... thanks for all the information!

[Han Solo]

Thanks for the info.

The order of midnames given in DGSD does not seem to correlate with the poem, so JY did not use this scheme?

[Candide]

JY used the idea but not neccessarily the order.

[CC]

Originally posted by rabadi
So, there are actually no ranks? You mean that those names are merely just generation names? For example, Xu Zhu came from Xu surname (or middle name, or whatever ). So, after DGSD era there would be a Shaolin leader from Xu generation?

Just like other JY sects, they go by generations for ranking. Exceptions would be those with positions like Abbot or Head of a certain Hall.

I am still not sure if sweeper monk has a generational name or if he is one of those monks who do menial tasks only and are not full members. Since no one in shaolin, even the elders know him, he was probably not ranked. But since he had access to the treasured manuals it seem that he should have substantial rank? Or maybe he wasn't supposed to have access to them? Its not stated that he actually studied or read the stuff, but since he knew MRB and XYS were messing with them and he could put scripts next to them, he probably had access.

[Candide]

The Sweeper Monk was not a ranked Shaolin monk as he only did the cleaning work. Shaolin in DGSD didn't restrict any monk in their temple from reading the martial art manual (even the top ones) as long as they didn't get leaked to the outside world, according to the SM. The manuals were just there in the Sutra Preserving Room (where the SM worked for 45 years, so he was allowed access), anyone could just walk in and read it. Perhaps Shalin had more restrictions after DGSD, esp since the fireworker monk incident.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by CC
Just like other JY sects, they go by generations for ranking. Exceptions would be those with positions like Abbot or Head of a certain Hall.

I am still not sure if sweeper monk has a generational name or if he is one of those monks who do menial tasks only and are not full members. Since no one in shaolin, even the elders know him, he was probably not ranked. But since he had access to the treasured manuals it seem that he should have substantial rank? Or maybe he wasn't supposed to have access to them? Its not stated that he actually studied or read the stuff, but since he knew MRB and XYS were messing with them and he could put scripts next to them, he probably had access.

I still say he is the Xiao Yao founder, who went to Shaolin to steal the 72 Divine Arts, then in the process got religion and joined them instead. That also explains how he could clearly see that JMZ was using XWXG, where all the other monks couldn't

[rabadi]

I can't remember, how did JMZ learn XWXG?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Actually, no one knows. It's a huge bloody mystery as to how he learned it.

[Han Solo]

Xiao Wu Xiang Gong was given to JMZ by MRB, along with the Shaolin's 72 Supreme Arts.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Originally posted by Han Solo
Xiao Wu Xiang Gong was given to JMZ by MRB, along with the Shaolin's 72 Supreme Arts.

¶

And how did MRB got that copy of XWXG?
So far, there's no indication that XWXG is in the libraries of the Murong family or Mrs. Wang. The copies of wuxia books in the LQS's cave (brought to Mrs Wang's library) logically didn't include XYP martial arts. The LQS scroll was hidden at the feet of the 'Sister Goddess'. That is the version in the TLBB 2nd edition. In the 1st edition it was written on numerous mirrors on the walls of the cave. I think JY changed that so he musn't explain why no XYP martial arts is in Mrs. Wang's library.