WCY's disciples vs ZSF's disciples

[Raden Wijaya]

I don't know if there was a thread like this, but anyway ...
WCY's disciples vs ZSF's disciples. Who do you think are better in term martial art skill & internal energy?

[philip]

not sure about skills, but i would say Quan Zhen had better internal energy...(well, they were older too, i guess)

[superboy]

The best in martial arts out of the 7 QZ masters is QQJ. Anyone have opinions on rather there are any one from the 7 Wudang Heros that is better than him?

[sixdays]

in ch 4 or so of HSDS, zhang cuishan has a fight against some shaolin monks. during the fight's narration, JY says that the second generation of shaolin at the time would not be able to compare at all to the main fighters in wudang. taking that into consideration, i'd say the first disciples of Z3F would be able to compare to the first generation fighters in shaolin at the time, which isn't THAT impressive...seeing as 3saints of kunlun beat up everyone in shaolin and he still wasn't as strong as Z3F was when he was a teenager.

the best student to ever come out of wudang was ZWJ --- and that was because of all the other kungfu he learned (i.e. QKDLY, 9yang, etc) as well, making him a fluke. i don't think any of Z3F's disciples were able to capture the full strength of their teacher.

i give the win to QZ.

[superboy]

I believe that the 3 Saint was pretty much a lot more skilled than young Z3F during the battled. He just wasn't able to beat him within 10 stances, and that's what he promised. So he exited.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Originally posted by superboy
I believe that the 3 Saint was pretty much a lot more skilled than young Z3F during the battled. He just wasn't able to beat him within 10 stances, and that's what he promised. So he exited.

Yup.

[SkineePanda]

I don't think disciples like Sun Bu-er and Hao Datong can stand up pound for pound against anyone of the seven heroes.

But the 7 QZ can use their Big Dipper formation which has been tested and proven in battle. Wudang's 7 Sphere(?) formation was said to be very powerful BUT has never been used.

[sixdays]

good point superboy. but the fight still showed that a teenage Z3F practicing 9yang still had better internal energy than 3saints. that in itself is pretty impressive, considering 3saints was one of the top fighters at the time. definitely not up to the level of YG, GJ, and the other Greats, but i'd say about HD's level or even above. maybe he could even beat up HR.

[Raden Wijaya]

The best in martial arts out of the 7 QZ masters is QQJ. Anyone have opinions on rather there are any one from the 7 Wudang Heros that is better than him?

How good was QQJ at the end of ROCH? Could he beat the like of LMC?

[Athena]

Originally posted by Raden Wijaya
How good was QQJ at the end of ROCH? Could he beat the like of LMC?

See this thread:
East Heretic's students vs. South Emperor's students vs. Central Divinity's students

For a more accurate description on how good the Seven Masters were, see that thread. But the elder martial arts brothers of the Seven masters were better than Li Mochou. (Ma Yu, Liu Chuxuan, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi)

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Raden Wijaya
How good was QQJ at the end of ROCH? Could he beat the like of LMC?

In terms of actual martial arts skill, Yau Chui Gei was already better than Lee Mok Sau even at the beginning of ROCH (by the end, he was too old and decrepit to even move). In an actual fight, however, I think his chances are 50/50 . . . because he fights fair and Lee Mok Sau doesn't.

[philip]

depends on what you define as fair fight....

QCJ would have higher internal energy for sure....but LMC's strokes are just more dangerous and life threatening...

[superboy]

Originally posted by sixdays
good point superboy. but the fight still showed that a teenage Z3F practicing 9yang still had better internal energy than 3saints. that in itself is pretty impressive, considering 3saints was one of the top fighters at the time. definitely not up to the level of YG, GJ, and the other Greats, but i'd say about HD's level or even above. maybe he could even beat up HR.

Nah, I don't think he can beat up HR. HR is pretty strong in ROCH, although far behind her husband of course.

[Raden Wijaya]

But the elder martial arts brothers of the Seven masters were better than Li Mochou. (Ma Yu, Liu Chuxuan, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi)

If I'm not mistaken, when Hua Dou & De Er Ba (the Mongolians) attacked Chong Yang Palace, 7 taoist Quan Zhen need to attacked with their formation in order to beat them. (QCJ said that GJ defeated them faster than they would).
Was Hua Dou & De Er Ba better than Li Mo Chou ?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by Raden Wijaya
If I'm not mistaken, when Hua Dou & De Er Ba (the Mongolians) attacked Chong Yang Palace, 7 taoist Quan Zhen need to attacked with their formation in order to beat them. (QCJ said that GJ defeated them faster than they would).
Was Hua Dou & De Er Ba better than Li Mo Chou ?

Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba were not alone during their attack on Chung Yeung Temple. They brought dozens upon dozens of bandit fighters with them. Even so, only three (albeit the best three...Ma Yuk, Yau Chui Gei, and Wong Chui 1) of the Cheun Jen 6 Disciples battled Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba's gang (they never got to take on Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba personally because Gwok Jing showed up and drove them off).

Fok Do certainly could not beat Lee Mok Sau. Dat Yee Ba probably couldn't either, although he'd put up a better fight.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by philip
LMC's strokes are just more dangerous and life threatening...

More vicious, definitely, but not necessarily better. The most dangerous thing about Lee Mok Sau (other than her ruthless heart), of course, was her poison. If she can't beat Yau Chui Gei in a fair fight, she'd likely bring out her arsenal of Ice Soul Silver Needles against him.

[sarakoth]

the wudang 7 heroes from HSDS were like part of a class of first rate fighters

sort of like the Greats of LOCH but a much much bigger class

except for omnipotent people like ZWJ and Z3F, there really wasn't anyone that was way way better than them

the 7 WCY's disciples could be pwnd easily by a LOCH Great if they didn't use the formation

[Ken Cheng]

the wudang 7 heroes from HSDS were like part of a class of first rate fighters

sort of like the Greats of LOCH but a much much bigger class

Well, no...not quite that good.

except for omnipotent people like ZWJ and Z3F, there really wasn't anyone that was way way better than them

I beg to differ:

1. The Shaolin Dao Generation monks (x 3)

2. The Ming Cult Guardian Lords (x 4)

3. The Ming Cult Left and Right Heralds of Light (x 2)

4. The Yeun Ming Elders (x 2)

5. Mongol mercenaries Ah Dai, Ah 2, and Ah 3

6. Almost certainly Lady Yeung

7. The Shaolin Hung Generation monks (x 3)

[sarakoth]

Well, no...not quite that good.




I beg to differ:

1. The Shaolin Dao Generation monks (x 3)

2. The Ming Cult Guardian Lords (x 4)

3. The Ming Cult Left and Right Heralds of Light (x 2)

4. The Yeun Ming Elders (x 2)

5. Mongol mercenaries Ah Dai, Ah 2, and Ah 3

6. Almost certainly Lady Yeung

7. The Shaolin Hung Generation monks (x 3)

none of them are way way better than the wudang 7 heroes like the LOCH Greats were better than the QZ Masters

all 7 of the wudang heroes could EASILY defeat any of the above mentioned people without the use of their special formation

[Ken Cheng]

none of them are way way better than the wudang 7 heroes like the LOCH Greats were better than the QZ Masters

all 7 of the wudang heroes could EASILY defeat any of the above mentioned people without the use of their special formation

I doubt it. Even Cheung Mo Gei with two of the Ming Cult's best (Yeung Siu and Yan Teen Sing) were unable to overcome the Dao Generation Shaolin monks. Additionally, Cheung Chui San was in complete awe of Tse Tsun's martial arts (at one point even believing that Tse Tsun's martial arts were second only to Cheung 3 Fung's, which wasn't exactly true, of course, but the point is made that a Ming Cult Guardian Lord's martial arts were much higher than a Mo Dong Hero's), and Tse Tsun was unable to injure Shaolin's Hung Geen until Hung Geen dropped his Diamond Invincibility Shield.