Yang Guo vs. You Tan Zhi

[Raden Wijaya]

I also think it wierd when comparing GJ to XF. They never compare GJ to the people like MRB, XF's dad, and JMZ. Because they too are around the level of XF.

You know, it's much easier comparing the same thing. XF & GJ learned HL18Z, both has mastered it and reached the highest level.
It's like when you comparing basketball player with the same style like T Mac & Kobe. It's much easier than comparing T Mac to Duncan.

[PJ]

Originally posted by TaiHan
because of this, I sometime don't believe what people said until I read it myself. I do believe YG and GJ to be about equal.

I also think it wierd when comparing GJ to XF. They never compare GJ to the people like MRB, XF's dad, and JMZ. Because they too are around the level of XF.

We could do that, but there are a few reason why we usually don't.

1. GJ and XF are both main heroes with similar heroic traits. They have more in common than say GJ with JMZ.

2. We see more of XF than the other DGSD experts.

3. GJ and XF both know XL18Z, another shared convenience.

4. GJ and XF are in the same generation during most of the story, whereas the other guys are way older.

[CC]

Originally posted by Ren Wo Xing
Once again...generally people think that YG is, without a doubt, inferior to Xiao Feng and even Xiao Feng's defeated opponent's. Yet, they think that he could beat Guo Jing, who is considered by many more to possibly stand a chance against Xiao Feng.

While I do think XF>GJ>YG (by small increments) I don't think YTZ can beat YG. Even if YG matched palms and lost, its not like YG will get seriously injured by the palm match.

DCQ had inferior strength and he got pushed back several steps when meeting palms with YTZ, the power difference wasn't enough to injure him.

One on one XF smacked YTZ silly when he didnt have MRF to cover his weakness. YG should smack YTZ quite easy too.

[CC]

Originally posted by PJ
I disagree. The novel stated that XF used all his might to fight the two, and YTZ handled most of XF's raw power. If he's able to take XF's blows while XF had trouble taking his, it makes sense that YTZ *might* have more internal energy. As far as not being able to reach XF, it's probably because YTZ couldn't use his energy properly. Internal energy both powers him up and protects him, and since he had no fighting knowledge or experience, we can get a better judgement from the defense view, which shows that YTZ is probably better. Same deal as XZ vs JMZ, where XZ could defend but not offend much.

Otherwise I tend to agree that XF wasn't really "losing." However, he was at a slight disadvantage, which MRF believed would start kicking in effect after half an hour.

It was stated that he felt the cold pain when he was "concentrating on MRF". And after that sentence, it said he powered up to full blasts and after that, the Yin Energy could not touch him. Since he was fighting _both_ opponents, it makes sense that he couldn't be blasting YTZ with 100%. Maybe only 70-80% was spent on repelling YTZ? MRF was not such a scrub that 1% of XF's power could keep him off.

[PJ]

After Murong Fu started letting You Tanzhi take most of the palm blow, the novel said that "Facing Xiao Feng's fierce palm strokes, You Tanzhi used his profound internal energy to withstand them." It doesn't say whether YTZ felt uncomfortable, but we know YTZ's hits bothered XF such that XF had to use his full energy to fend himself.

If we choose to believe YTZ is a bit weaker than XF, and YTZ used his maximum energy at this battle, then it would seem strange he could take XF's blows without any problem. After all, even Murong Bo felt pain in his arm when blocking a blow from XF, and XF was running fast at the time, consuming energy.

On the other hand, if we imagine YTZ has higher internal energy than XF and that YTZ didn't use his full energy, then things may make a little more sense. While XF had to unleash a great deal of internal energy so that YTZ's palms could not reach him, YTZ didn't really have to spend so much energy with XF's palms; instead he could "absorb" them even at XF's fullest (let's say 30% was used towards MRF, who deliberately "shifted" most of them to YTZ, so about 90% was taken by YTZ). Duan Yu and MRF both believed XF would exhaust his energy soon; had it been the case for YTZ also, I think they would have reacted otherwise.

The point is XF seems to have more trouble with YTZ's hits than the other way around. I therefore believe YTZ has somewhat higher internal energy.

in any event I don't think YTZ will prevail against YG. The smallest trick can be lethal to someone who doesn't have any foundation of martial arts and is a born loser.

[CC]

Hmmm if YG had Ah Zhi by the throat and YTZ had XLN by the throat. Who is gonna budge first?

[Candide]

Originally posted by CC
Hmmm if YG had Ah Zhi by the throat and YTZ had XLN by the throat. Who is gonna budge first?

YTZ would piss his pants and kowtow first as he already had some experience with this situation. YG would simply freeze, having no idea how to cope with that.

[PJ]

Originally posted by CC
Hmmm if YG had Ah Zhi by the throat and YTZ had XLN by the throat.

[Raden Wijaya]

The smallest trick can be lethal to someone who doesn't have any foundation of martial arts and is a born loser.

Then Huang Rong should be able to KO YTZ too as She is the Zhuge Lady in Jin Yong universe.

[Allen D]

i dunno. i think she may too weak to do so.

[superboy]

It is possible if HR kept wacking him on the head while he charges like a crazy bull.

[CC]

Don't forget that YTZ wasn't just pure strength. Even if his martial training was minor, his YJJ gives him boosted reflexes and subconcious reactions to danger. How fast he was is not conclusive or stated, but he was fast enough to dodge Xiao Feng's strikes.

[Zhen Yu Cao]

Although ROCH speaks volumes about YG's inner strength (wave incident), I as most people, don't think he can take YTZ through Sad Palms. However, I don't think palm encounters would be critical or anywhere near for YG. We must remember that YTZ, while having strength, has very little actual experience. His little bit of YJJ that gives him heightened senses and whatnot only goes so far. Meanwhile, YG, one who has always seemed talented at martial arts, just trained with a freaking beast whose only fighting style is instinct for 16 years (while saving the world and gathering even more experience), seems more than enough to handle him. Someone said that YTZ is fast enough to dodge XF's strikes, that's most likely just the heightened senses holding him up. Think of it spider man style . You know, the scene in the movie, when Peter first realizes somethings up cause he's dodging the bully's punches? Well, YG has got the Tomb sect's qing gong. We all know that someone whose mastered this, Xiao Long Niu, has absolutely riduculous speed. She was literally a blur in the novel. Considering qing gong is an essential part of a fighter's repertoire (jianghu universe), YG should have plenty of practice with it. Even if he's not at XLN's level, he should at least be 'quite' fast. Put a big blunt sword in his hand and eh, you got a YTZ killer right thurr.

[superboy]

YTZ's heightened reflexes will do him good, but probably not enough for him to actually take on YG though.

[duguxiaojing]

What about with the highest level of sad palms where his pretty much fighting uncounsiously? It was enough for him to completely destroy GWM( high imperial monk or whatever) at that final state would he still be defeated?

[superboy]

I don't know if that's the highest. I think the Sad Palms at best is on'y as good as Hl18Z. And the palms landed on GLFW's body, of course he will be destroy. But I think the strange movements alone of the Sad Palms even without it's full power might overwhelm YTZ.

[duguxiaojing]

yeah ill agree with that. without using the highest level of sad palm YG could match but not necessairly defeat ZBT and GWM(well he might of been able to beat gwm) since GJ is stronger than ZBT and GWM it would proboally take everything YG had to draw with Guo jing. So then there pretty much equal...i guess to be fair to both GJ and YG fans. Does anyone know what Jin Yong thinks about this? has he ever commented on which palm technique is superior?

[superboy]

I'm not sure if Sad Palm is able to defeat ZBT or not, since he wasn't defeated by YG's Sad Palms during their competition. On the palms, HYS did commented that it's comparable to HL18Z.

[rabadi]

Agree with superboy, ZBT was not defeated by Sad Palms. We will not know for sure though, since the fight was stopped.

[duguxiaojing]

i didnt say YG would have defeated ZBT i said he could match but NOT necessarily defeat ZBT.