A project maybe we can all work on together.

[Ken Cheng]

Jin Yong's novels are populated with hundreds of different characters, martial arts techniques, martial arts schools and associations, weapons, poisons, geographical locations, etc. What nobody has undertaken, however, is to compile an index of these various items...including origin, history, and significance to Jin Yong's stories. Perhaps this is something we can all pool our knowledge on, and compile for all Jin Yong fans. If successful, we could consider expanding this project for Gu Long, Leung Yu Sung, and other prominent wuxia writers.

Of course, we must answer several questions first: how do we begin? How do we coordinate such a project?

Maybe the first thing we need to do is compile lists of characters, martial arts, martial arts associations, etc.

[sixdays]

WHEW! that IS a big project...but it can be done.

first of all, i think the best idea would be to separate teams by book. for each team, a MUST would be a fluent chinese reader to actually refer to the novel and not bits and pieces of translations and adaptations (aka ppl like me )

an alternative would be to separate teams by what you like --- perhaps have a team concentrate on characters, a team on weapons, and team on martial arts. i forsee the martial arts team separated by styles, such as swordplay/palms/qing gong/projectiles/internal energy, etc.

at any rate, the most important asset will be for non-chinese readers to be able to refer to ppl that are able to read the book. oftentimes, i feel like i have intelligent questions that get debated forever between us who cannot refer to the novel; then someone like noodles rushes in, translates a chapter, and suddenly everyone is more clear.

so in conclusion: it can be done, but we need literate chinese ppl! good luck, i'd like to see this happen...and if it does, i got dibs on formless theory.

[Ken Cheng]

I was chatting with Candide (formerly TristeCouer) last night, and he's thinking of ways to get us organized. He recommends chronological order of novels, which isn't a bad idea (it'd help people get a sense for the flow of the stories).

I think first, we need people to throw out as many names of items and characters they can think of. Then, we should compile a list of these items and characters in Romanized pinyin alphabetical order.

But most of all, we need *people*. The more volunteers we get, the more effective this undertaking will be.

[sixdays]

another issue is language. i know JY is natively from taiwan, and that's why we use mandarin pinyin mostly. luckily, i speak mandarin so i'm okay with this. however, i've noticed that you use cantonese pronunciation when referring to characters. i'm cantonese also, so i find this a big help...but when i encounter some characters, the resulting acronym is quite different from the accepted one (ie. lee mok sau = LMS, vs. Li Mo Chou =LMC and the one we use).

should we have a list of both cantonese and mandarin pronunciations? it may complicate things but i forsee it as being a big help for people who go between languages, or who speak neither of our languages.

[Allen D]

i'd love to participate.

[rabadi]

I agree with sixdays. If we list the names, then perhaps we should come up with the synonym in Cantonese, Hokkienese, Vietnamese, etc. so that it will be nice to everybody.

Candide is formerly TristeCouer? No wonder we haven't seen any of Triste's postings lately

[Anonymous]

Of course, we must answer several questions first: how do we begin? How do we coordinate such a project?
Maybe the first thing we need to do is compile lists of characters, martial arts, martial arts associations, etc.
--- Try an index page like Noodles thing in Translation forum with subthreads.
--- Athena's list of characters/stuff is a good start.

[Allen D]

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...&threadid=3975

[Han Solo]

My list and the list that someone else recently posted a link that listed all the possible pronounciation of the names of JY's heroes can be a start.

More suggestions in a days time when i'm more free.

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by sixdays
another issue is language. i know JY is natively from taiwan, and that's why we use mandarin pinyin mostly.

Correction: Jin Yong is from Haining, Zhejiang but became famous as a wuxia writer in Hongkong. He's not from Taiwan.

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
Of course, we must answer several questions first: how do we begin? How do we coordinate such a project?

Maybe the first thing we need to do is compile lists of characters, martial arts, martial arts associations, etc

This is actually something I've been thinking about for years now. I think it should be somewhat like this:

Marvel Universe Encyclopedia

Ken, if you need help: count me in!

[Han Solo]

OK, i'm free right now.

The suggestions that i have:-
1) We need a respected individual, who's willing to work tirelessly, and without any salary etc i.e. willing to spend some time as the central coordinating indivual, the secretary of the whole enterprise. Otherwise, the whole thing/project would be falling apart as everyone will have their own idea of what they want, and how much they want to do. Someone like Ken Cheng?

2) As per Ken's suggestion, the database ought to include:-
a) The names of (hopefully) all the individuals in JY cannons, their english names in the varous pronounciation e.g. manadarin, cantonese, vietnamese etc,
b) their sect,
c) their age of birth and death (as far as we can determine),
d) the era they are set in and the novel of origin,
e) the martial arts that they trained in,
f) the "black star" of their martial art,
g) a bit of character profile,
h) their sect members, sect masters,
i) allies and enemies,
j) and lovers,
k) and prominent achievements.

3) Having done that, for the more graphically attuned, a diagram of the various relationships of individuals intra- and inter-novel like those of DGSD that used to be floating around in this forum.

4) Hopefully, a database of the common martial arts, their users, the stances.

5) A mini-dictionary describing the meanings of things like "sword intention" and "formlessness".

6) Hopefully, hopefully, if the above have been achieved, we can then moved on to GL, YLS, and other less well-known authors.

7) Finally, i hope to promote a JY survivor series using the database, modelled on the old Baseball Survivor. But that's a distant concept which i wll try to explain in the future.

Here's to a start of a beautiful partnership,
Han Solo

[Ken Cheng]

Thanks for your input, guys. I anticipate this to be a very long term project that will take us at least a year (if, indeed, not longer than that) to complete, but we have a powerful enough brain trust here with all our combined efforts that I'm confident we can pull it off.

Lavi: The MARVEL UNIVERSE ENCYCLOPEDIA is a very good model to copy for what we're planning to do. In fact, THE OFFICIAL HANDBOOK OF THE MARVEL UNIVERSE and DC Comics' equivalent, WHO'S WHO, gave me much of the inspiration for this project.

Han: My lack of Chinese literacy limits the amount of actual research that I can contribute, so serving as a coordinator is probably something that would be good for me to do. I can take the info that everybody digs up and arrange in some coherent and organized manner.

[Ian Liew]

Originally posted by Ken Cheng
He recommends chronological order of novels, which isn't a bad idea (it'd help people get a sense for the flow of the stories).

eek.. which means it's going to start from Book and Sword (chronological in terms of writing), or from Yueh Maiden (chronological in terms of timeline)? Book and Sword has a ridiculous number of heroes in it, most of whom have some decently detailed backgrounds....

If interested, resources from the online game Jin Yong Online (for those who can read Chinese) could be very helpful to find some of the more obscure wugongs and characters - especially those who don't read much and rely on TV adaptations.

[Han Solo]

One more thing, perhaps the database can be organised in something like an excel file or pdf file; and can be uploaded into our jinyong fans group at Yahoo.

[sixdays]

to lav:

my bad, i always thought JY was from taiwan. that's what the parents led me to believe, anyways...must be the "louis cha" thing that threw them off.

on a sidenote:

i was thinking about this project and a often-overlooked but still very important section of JY universe came to my mind: medicine. i'm talking about every "superpill" in his stories, as well as defining how people like Z3F and ZWJ use chi to heal. that'd probably be an important addition to just straight-out character analysis and kungfu listings.

another thing as well. i notice in books like the marvel encyclopedia or the who's who of DC universe, there's obviously more information on the biggest characters in their respective universes like batman, wolverine, superman, professor x, etc.

do you think it's because they started with the most familiar characters, and therefore the easiest characters to compile information on? i think it'd be best to define the most "famous" things and people from the JY universe --- starting with defining all the main characters spanning across the JY canon, rather than trying to go book by book. lesser characters can later on be concentrated on according to novel, but i think the backbone has to be what we're all familiar with and what we bring up on the forums everyday.

let me know if you guys need any help...i know i'm a new kid on the block, but i can do grunt work...like typing...

[darkcser]

Originally posted by Han Solo
One more thing, perhaps the database can be organised in something like an excel file or pdf file; and can be uploaded into our jinyong fans group at Yahoo.

A db of some sort would be really nice. This way we can ask questions like "Who were the people who knew XL18Z?" Ideally someone could host it with an ASP/JSP/PHP front end both for searching and adding new entries. I can work out a db schema if no one else wants to. This can be done in Access, SQL Server, MySQL, Oracle, etc.


Just to start off...

Table Character
ChID
Name (Mandarin PinYin)
CantoneseName (Cantonese)
ChineseName (Chinese Characters)
DateofBirth
DateofDeath
History
Notes
SkillRating
PowerRating


Table Alias
ChID
Name (Mandarin PinYin)
CantoneseName (Cantonese)
ChineseName (Chinese Characters)

Table Relationship
ChID
OtherChID
NatureOfRelationship (should this be a table of its own?)

Table Technique
TechID
Name (Mandarin PinYin)
CantoneseName (Cantonese)
ChineseName (Chinese Characters)
Description
PowerRating
CounterTechID

Table CharacterTechnique
ChID
TechID
MasteryRating
Notes

Table Book
BkID
Title
CantoneseTitle
ChineseTitle
Author (In case we do GL or another author)
CantoneseAuthor
ChiseseAuthor
PublishDate
Version

Table CharacterBook
ChID
BkID

[Han Solo]

I guess that i will start first.

I'm choosing LHC.

a) The names of (hopefully) all the individuals in JY cannons, their english names in the varous pronounciation e.g. manadarin, cantonese, vietnamese etc,

Surname: Linghu
First Name: Chong
Chinese Name: <?>
Cantonese Name: Ling Wu Chong
Vietnamese Name: <?>
Korean Name: <?>

b) their sect,
Huashan Sect, as head disciple of Master Yue BuQun of the Chi faction.

After being expelled, he became the head of the Heng-Shan Sect.


c) their age of birth and death (as far as we can determine),

<I think he is in his early thirties. HELP. No date of birth and death in the novel>

d) the era they are set in and the novel of origin,

Early to Mid Ming dynasty. (AFAIK, the novel was never specific>

LHC is the main protagonist of State of Divinity a.k.a. Smiling Proud Wanderer (Mandarin: Xiao Ao Jiang Hu)


e) the martial arts that they trained in,

Huashan Chi faction sword arts.
Chong-Ling Sword Art.
All Five Mountains Sword Alliance's sword arts.
The Counter-Point of All Five Schools' Arts, devised by Evil Cult's elders.
Dugu 9 Jian.
Xi Xing Da Fa.
Yi Jin Jing.

f) the "black star" of their martial art,
?None? <Ppl with higher inner energy?>

g) a bit of character profile,

See achievements.

h) their sect members, sect masters,

Huashan School: Master Yue BuQun, Madame Yue, Yue Ling Shan, Lao Denuo, Lu Dayou, Lin Pingzhi, <anyone else?>

Heng-Shan Sect: Yilin, DingYi etc
<I need help with the names of Heng-Shan Sect, I never remember any of them.>

i) allies and enemies,
Allies: Lu Dayou, Madame Yue, Tian Boguang, Elder Green, Ren Yin Ying, Abbot Fang Zhen of Shaolin, Taoist <?> of Wudang, Xiang Wentian of Sun-Moon Sect, Peach Valley’s Six Fairies, Blue Phoenix of Five-Sylph Sect.

Enemies: Four Aces of Qingcheng (Hou Renying, Hong Renxiong, Yu Renhao, and Luo Renjie), Master Yu of QingCheng, Master Zhuo of Song Mountain School and others of Song Shan, Master Yue of Huanshan, Lin Ping Zhi, Ren Wo Xing, Dong Fang Bu Bai, Lao Denuo.

j) and lovers,
First Love: Yue Ling Shan
Others: Yilin
Wife: Ren Yin Ying

k) and prominent achievements.

LHC is the head disciple of HuaShan. After the incident with Tian Boguang and Liu Zhengfeng, LHC is confined to soliditary meditation by his master. During this period of time, he discovered the secrets of the elders of Sun-Moon Sect, and learned DG9J from his grand-uncle master, Feng Qing Yang.

Unfortunately after being injured in a fight with the Sword faction elder of Huashan, he is inappropriately treated by the Peach Valley’s Six Fairies and Monk No-Commandment; resulting in complete loss of inner energy.

At the same time, he was accused of stealing Huashan's Violet Twillight Divine Art and Lin Ping Zhi's Evil-Resistant Sword Art. He faces a tough time etc......

Read it at http://www.lannyland.com/wanderer

[rabadi]

darkcser, just a suggestion, perhaps you might add a master table for skill rating and for power rating. I'll put BkID in the Table Character and drop the Table CharacterBook, perhaps that's easier?

I think if you make the software in client-server version as well, you might be able to sell it and make some money

[Han Solo]

Addendum to the LHC above:-

The Taoist Priest is Chong Hui of Wudang
(?spelling)

The three Heng-Shan priestess were Dingying, Dingxian, and Dingxi

The order of Huashan disciples:-
1) LingHu Chong
2) Lao Denuo
3) Liang Fa
4) Shi Daizi
5) Gao GenMing
6) Lu DaYao

[Bei Rongkun]

What a dream project !
I supported it very much!!

Is it any index at the end of each JY novel ?
Maybe for the first step we (I mean you) can start with that index.