another YG and GJ thread

[superboy]

GJ at the end of LOCH could not have been 70% of the Greats. Although HYS used 70% of his power on him, it was stated by JY that martial arts master cannot hold any think in a battle. I think was how he tried to justify it. GJ's internal energy were no where near the Great. That's why he cannot even do a thing when crazy OYF grabbed his hands, because his internal energy were no where near(said by JY). And although I do not argue with YG being stronger than GJ at the same age, I do not believe that YG is equal to GJ at the end of ROCH. Lets use the Greats as reference since there are more people. HYS, ZBT, and 1D are all the people that are around the level of YG at the end of ROCH. So GJ at the end of ROCH, at age 56, should be much more powerful logically.

[philip]

no where near greats and yet able to fend of a 70% HYS (not to mention he did use XL18Z which is very qi-based)...yes, 70% is really not a high number if you come to think about it, but but someone who was crap 4 years ago, it's still a great achievement. by the 2nd hua shan tournament, 2 GJs (including his L/R) would definitely match a Great, wouldn't you agree? yet, if he were to progress proportionally, at the end of 10 years, he should be able to take on two OYFs instead of having a tie w/ one OYF

[philip]

And what's wrong with a poisoness weapon? That was not a point. Do you consider someone having a spoon to fight against a hammer fair. Or how about an arrow against a gun? Superior weaponry are not the fairest way to battle.

in that case...having a "fair fight" would mean that ppl can't use weapons at all. Then, basically, the only way to have a "fair" fight would be to use hands and body only. That would disqualify HYS's flicking fingers, dog beating stick, any type of swordplay or weaponry. then, of course all the great palm/fist/leg users would win all the battles.

[Temujin]

Originally posted by LiarLiar
I feel the need to disagree with TEMUJIN. First of all Xh Zhu and Daun Yu have little to no fighting experiences is the main reason XF will beat them. Especially in the case of Xu Zhu. Give him ten years time to perfect his techiques and fullingly use his inner energy and get more fighting experiences. XF will not beat him. Fighting experience can only get you so far.

Maybe I'm using a bad analogy but the point I'm trying to make is EXPERIENCE plays a big part on decisive battle among the Great level. And in a case of GJ vs. YG, since they never really even spar or go at it, then one of the most determining factors is experience.

It's like Sport. No matter how great and powerful the new guy is, majority of time, the older guy with more experience always can find a way to overcome the younger guy especially on crunch time and decisive moments.

And in this case, we're talking about almost 12 year difference. That's a lot more experience on GJ's favor.

You act like YG has no fighting experience.

He does have fighting experience, but GJ has more.

Experiences is not going to be a big different between them.

I think it will. A guy with 12 years more experience will certainly plays a big part on his confidence level and how he would analyze battle/fights.

GJ 16 years before is around equal to the inner energy of JGLS. In the 16 years, GJ continue training 9 yin and JGLS continue training the dragon and elephant techique to another level. It is not too much to say JGLS is around GJ inner energy even after 16 years.

How so ? I think GJ's inner energy should be more powerful with his 9-Yin and QZ cultivation.

By the way, I'm more of a GJ fans, but now I see YG is equally impressive with all the translation done. Look at the way, YG train, you can't help be impressive. It seem like he is pushing himself to his limit just to get great martial arts. Great will-power.

The problem I find with YG's training and inner power cultivation is, it has never stated in the novel, that his inner power will continue to increase with age even without training, and yet GJ continues to train which makes it even more abundant.

So while GJ's inner power inner is growing by second, YG is not. Y

[Temujin]

Originally posted by LiarLiar
A stance can't change, but it can be perfected. A stances can be better if it is perfect. Many people stated GJ improve in LOCH because he had to battle OYF. Can't the Sad palms improve a little after battling both WYS AND ZBT.

I highly doubt that since they only fought briefly and in a friendly manner. When GJ involunteerly fought with OYF, it was an everyday affair and definitely not that friendly.

[Temujin]

Originally posted by LiarLiar
It come down to my opinion on the inner energy of 9yin and your. My opinion of the inner energy of 9 yin is not as strong as your opinion of the inner energy of 9 yin. I believe the inner energy that one can get from 9yin is comparable with the inner energy one can get from the ocean waves training of YG. I also think the level 10 of the elephant and dragon techique inner energy is comparable with the inner energy of 9 yin. You don't. 9 yin have techiques also, that is why it is better, but the inner energy it provide is not stronger than other form of inner energy training.

9 Yin has been said to be the one of the best Kung Fu manual in JY world, and it was constantly fought among the Greats since the first Hua Shan tournament, HYS even used tricks to get his hands on this book, even WYC praised the book and used some parts of it to defeat LCY's skills.

When H7Q was injured, it took him only about half a year (correct me if I'm wrong) to regain almost all of his inner power back. I don't think the ocean wave training and level 10 of elephant and dragon technique can produce such result.

GJ uses 9 Yin together with QZ inner power cultivation. It should be a no-contest.

You always point out JY didn't point out this or not. If he did point out everything, we wouldn't be debating. We will have the answer. Did JY ever state GJ is better than YG? Because he didn't that is why we are debating.

And JY had never said that YG is better than GJ.

The way the last fight of YG and GJLS was written give me the impression, the sad palms is better than when he fought ZBT. When YG throw a palms without knowing it, give me the impressive that sad palm is quickier and better. The last kick after three palms also gave me the impression it was quick and unavoidable. YG would able to do this when he is hurted and has limit mobility(he was hurt on the leg) seem impressive to me. It also seem after finding the essence of the sad palm again (sadness), YG gain a better understanding of his martial arts. which also can improve it. I can understand why some people will not see what I see because there is no proof. All of this is up to intrepretation. I'm just trying to point out my intrepretation. Not having the proof make this argument debatable.

You're right. I don't see it. The impression I got is that he's lucky brat with one arm and had GJLS acted calmer a little bit and not worrying so much about losing to this young guy after they had exchanged 200 strokes, he would have had a better chance to tie YG, but it's the end of the novel and JY said the hero must win

[LiarLiar]

Don't you hate it when you write a long comment, that took you an hour and it get lost. I hate typing on line. Now that my post is gone, I'll make this one simply. I disagree!

[ChronoReverse]

Originally posted by philip
in that case...having a "fair fight" would mean that ppl can't use weapons at all. Then, basically, the only way to have a "fair" fight would be to use hands and body only. That would disqualify HYS's flicking fingers, dog beating stick, any type of swordplay or weaponry. then, of course all the great palm/fist/leg users would win all the battles.

Um, the finger flicking technique isn't a weapon technique anymore than HL18P is a weapon technique. Sure, you could use XL18P to blast a boulder to crush a guy, but that doesn't make a a weapon technique.

The Divine Finger Snap is perfectly capable of stopping a palm from another Great.

[duguxiaojing]

this is all a perspective thing i guess truthfully i think their equal and thats my opinion u guys may think YG or GJ is stronger but really there is no proof due 2 the fact that we dont know where Gj stands at the end of novel not through a hardcore battle enywats we here comments from ZBT and Z3F(not sure bout this heardhe said it in HSDS).

K enyways superboy iwasnt sayin the stances were diffrent but the speed (dont know but power) definitley was i dont know how u could aruge other wise. u could claim that GWM was angry and distracted but did that stop him from nearly getting away when he fought 1Deng,ZBt,yin gu, WY and the 2 condors? No he was still able to hold them all back he did not get knocked out in 4 stances explain that. U could say anger was a factor but face it YG needed 2 be full strenth 2 battle WYS,ZBT was he full strenth when he defeated GWM? U could say GWM underestimated a hurt YG but how would u explain the kick? Yg avoided GWM attack then launched one back defeating him in four stances. Look at his menatality when hes fighting superboy not even u could that argue that. they are the same stances yes but are u going 2 say there was no change in his menatlity he at one point he seemed to of just given up and let the essense of sad palms control his attack in the fight against ZBT and WYS he was fully aware of what he was doing thats what i belive gave him the boost in power.


Another thing u could look at is the fact that YG could Match GWM with whatever palms he was using in the beggining. It would not matter if it was no name palm or sad palm the fact is YG was matching GWM with either a second rate palm technique or a weakened sad palm to the point wher GWM thought he would be subdued. You even agreed that GWM and YG was= to greats. YG was able to match GWM with weaker palms and defeat him with stronger palms at end. So does that mean that mean YG is stronger? He could only match ZBT and WYS while goin "all out" . so that doesnt make sense unless his sad palms are stronger at the end.i dont understand what u mean by "technique alone". ive noticed u use this as an argument to disregard the first half of the GWM and YG battle. No it was not only technique it was inner power as well. His technique was strange but it was the innerpower as well that helped him from being slaughtered by gWM attack that is no knock on YG. Would u say DY wins his battles with technique alone? True 6msj is a superior technique(from what i heard) but where would he be without his inner power? why would u use that fact that YG having a strange technique to downplay the fact that he could match GWM? would GWM be where he is with out his elephant dragon thing?(dunno translation 2 lazy to look up.

[duguxiaojing]

u forgot about Yg training with the condor when he first lost his arm H7G reagined his inner power. YG became a run of the mill fighter to rivaling the greats in just over a month. u could argue that the Snake bladders were not a part of dugus training but it was a part of YG's. another thing you could look at is where Gj was at 36 and Yg at 36. Z3F commented that only YG and GJ inner power was equal to his master so is it safe to assume YG inner power progressed faster. how old was Gj at the heros gathering? 34-36 right? he could match GWM. at 36 Yg could match a much stronger GWM. So we know YG is AT LEAST= to GJ at the same age i belive YG is=GJ at end of novel and stronger at same age as GJ. Thats what logic is pointing 2 but its not stated anywhere in book so SB proboaly wont but it even when its obvious.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by duguxiaojing
u forgot about Yg training with the condor when he first lost his arm H7G reagined his inner power. YG became a run of the mill fighter to rivaling the greats in just over a month.

Only in terms of skill, however. His inner power was still considerably behind that of the Greats, and would remain so for at least another few years.

another thing you could look at is where Gj was at 36 and Yg at 36. Z3F commented that only YG and GJ inner power was equal to his master so is it safe to assume YG inner power progressed faster. how old was Gj at the heros gathering? 34-36 right? he could match GWM. at 36 Yg could match a much stronger GWM. So we know YG is AT LEAST= to GJ at the same age i belive YG is=GJ at end of novel and stronger at same age as GJ. Thats what logic is pointing 2 but its not stated anywhere in book so SB proboaly wont but it even when its obvious.

Not so obvious. You're assuming that Gwok Jing's internal power remained unchanged between the Heroes' Conference and the end of ROCH, and that's difficult to prove.

[superboy]

Originally posted by duguxiaojing
u forgot about Yg training with the condor when he first lost his arm H7G reagined his inner power. YG became a run of the mill fighter to rivaling the greats in just over a month. u could argue that the Snake bladders were not a part of dugus training but it was a part of YG's. another thing you could look at is where Gj was at 36 and Yg at 36. Z3F commented that only YG and GJ inner power was equal to his master so is it safe to assume YG inner power progressed faster. how old was Gj at the heros gathering? 34-36 right? he could match GWM. at 36 Yg could match a much stronger GWM. So we know YG is AT LEAST= to GJ at the same age i belive YG is=GJ at end of novel and stronger at same age as GJ. Thats what logic is pointing 2 but its not stated anywhere in book so SB proboaly wont but it even when its obvious.

What you mean I won't state it? I think I already did. I'm a fair guy. But the Sad Palms is a different case. Now, it is very hard to swallow that if the Sad Palms is in max power, GLFW would have been defeated in a few stances. And how do anyone compare the Sad Palms's fast movements that defeated GLFW when XL18Z has no variations like those? And also, the book didn't specifically stated that 36 years old GJ is weaker than 36 years old YG is of a different matter than the 'Super Sad Palms' that are being claimed. Because GJ and GLFW was already described to have martial arts level seperated from the smallest gap during their battle. And YG already knew that he would be able to defeat the GLFW of 16 years ago at the end of ROCH. So doesn't that already clear everything up? I also never argued that the Sad Palms when effective, will not be stronger than GLFW's palms. But remember, people are using the palms being able to struck GLFW 4 times as an arguement that it is stronger than the ones he used eariler. And remember, the ineffective Sad Palms during the start of the battle was already able to give GLFW a prediction of his own defeat, but Sad Palms even with its power working cannot do so to ZBT.

[superboy]

Originally posted by philip
no where near greats and yet able to fend of a 70% HYS (not to mention he did use XL18Z which is very qi-based)...yes, 70% is really not a high number if you come to think about it, but but someone who was crap 4 years ago, it's still a great achievement. by the 2nd hua shan tournament, 2 GJs (including his L/R) would definitely match a Great, wouldn't you agree? yet, if he were to progress proportionally, at the end of 10 years, he should be able to take on two OYFs instead of having a tie w/ one OYF

But that was not in terms of internal energy that GJ was 70% of the Greats. And GJ might just be able to only last 150 moves or so if HYS and H7G gone all out at first. And also remember that the Greats did improve during the years. GJ being at the Greats level was no small achievement. GJ being able to tie with a Great at his 70s at age 33 already suggests that he progress a lot faster than them within the 13 years. It does not make more logic if he suddenly slow down at the start of ROCH.

[duguxiaojing]

no ididnt Ken i never said at the end of novel GJ was weaker than YG i just stated a 36 year old YG was stronger than a 36 year GJ due to the fact that YG at close to the same age could match a stronger GWM.

Sb the post was not directed 2 u i just threw your name in the end because i hate u 4 always goin aginst me...just kiddin its because u always sayin "IT'S NOT STATED..." or "ITS STATED that" thats all i meant

I also never argued that the Sad Palms when effective, will not be stronger than GLFW's palms

Then waht are we arguing about?

And remember, the ineffective Sad Palms during the start of the battle was already able to give GLFW a prediction of his own defeat, but Sad Palms even with its power working cannot do so to ZBT

Well since GWM=ZBT yg should have been able to match ZBT without using full power of palms right? i mean it would not make sense that YG would need full power to match ZBT and not GWM.. so MAYBE just MAYBE could u plz agree that there MAYBE a CHANCE that his palms were stronger at the end u may not belive it but could it be a sensible theory?

[duguxiaojing]

and IMOP u are more fair then MOST YG haters i find GJ fans are fair and more willing 2 listen then YG haters. are u a YG hater or a GJ fan SB?

[superboy]

Originally posted by duguxiaojing
no ididnt Ken i never said at the end of novel GJ was weaker than YG i just stated a 36 year old YG was stronger than a 36 year GJ due to the fact that YG at close to the same age could match a stronger GWM.

Sb the post was not directed 2 u i just threw your name in the end because i hate u 4 always goin aginst me...just kiddin its because u always sayin "IT'S NOT STATED..." or "ITS STATED that" thats all i meant

Then waht are we arguing about?




Well since GWM=ZBT yg should have been able to match ZBT without using full power of palms right? i mean it would not make sense that YG would need full power to match ZBT and not GWM.. so MAYBE just MAYBE could u plz agree that there MAYBE a CHANCE that his palms were stronger at the end u may not belive it but could it be a sensible theory?

I'm argueming wether it was stronger than the one he used on ZBT. And also, we do not know wether GLFW is equal to ZBT in a battle since it lasted relatively short.

[duguxiaojing]

=( i thought u agreed all greats and GWM were equal sepertated but the slightest margins it took like a million post 2 convince u and now u dont belive so no more?

[superboy]

Sorry, but can you rephase that. I don't really understand.

[Anonymous]

Temu: But I just want to get some points across here.
1. Stronger does not equal better. I have to throw in Xiao Feng into the equation. He's NOT stronger than Xu Zhu and Duan Yu (at the end of DGSD).
--- Bad example. YG vs. GJ is arbitrary and you used another arbitrary battle betw XZ and DY for support. Besides, XZ got bundles of innerPower, knowledge of HL18Z, CarefreeTombStuff, etc.
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Temu: GJ has the ever-growing power of 9-Yin and QZ internal power cultivation. While YG, although the 16 years and the practice with waves give him amazingly powerful raw inner energy, his ultimate technique is still dependent with his emotional state (He needs to be sad or melancholic) and it has never stated anywhere in the novel that YG's inner power will continue to grow, while we know for sure GJ's will.
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--- YG has the "advanced" QZ training version and AncientTomb innerPower training (said to be "black star" and thus overcome/better than the QZ training version), thus YG will gain innerPower over time AND gain more too (cuz how else will AncientTomb even "rival" the QZ version). [j/k I can argue that since QZ=Yang and ATomb=Yin, this creates a "synergy" that can rival the YJJ+(IceSilkWorm)Thing: it's like 9Yin+9Yang_kiddy version. ]
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--- As for 9Yin: After LOCH, GJ got "10 years" to practice it in a secluded Peach Blossom Island. And after that 10 years, GJ only "tie" with OYF in ROCH's battle, and we know later that "OYF=H7G." So, let us look at "event/battle as they occur" and not at martial art propagandas like the AncientTombIceBed, DG9J, 9Yin, etc. [However, I admit GJ did "not" use L/R technique on OYF during their battle. Look below.]
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--- However, L/R technique may or may not work against OYF/H7G/HYS/ZBT/GWM. Why didnt GJ used L/R technique against OYF? Why didnt ZBT use L/R technique against GWM_lv10?
1) I already proved the L/R technique can be neutralized using SadPalms from YG, and this "may" be the reason. SadPalms is also equivalent to HYS's FlickingFingers and GJ's HL18Z and probably GWM_lv10'sAttack and other "greats" skills.
2) Also recall that GWM'sAttack on ZBT makes ZBT "impossible (exact wording in novel)" to counter-attack GWM (meaning, ZBT could only defend/neutralize GWM'sAttack). Why didnt ZBT use L/R then? ZBT "probably" cannot.
3) This supports the previous point: Recall in beginning of ROCH, OYF "gained" another level due the "fake 9Yin" and OYF=H7G. It could be as greats gain in level, L/R technique advantage diminishes to a point where it could only be used as "a surprise" attack. Even then, recall how YG [a one-handed disadvantage, especially against L/R technique and other "greats" has TWO HANDS]...YG puts up a "flawless" defense at meeting L/R technique. Also ZBT uses 9Yin "Demon-Subduing Fist," a parallel to "Dragon-Subduing Palms," with L/R.
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Temu: Does it mean that ZBT is weaker than JGLS, because YG fought ZBT before he fought JGLS. Yet after 200 strokes later JGLS was afraid he would lose to YG. Many mentioned that this is due to his mentality (He is always afraid of losing his face and getting beaten by younger generation).
--- Not sure if ZBT is weaker, but he was "not injured" in anyway proves his defense is "flawless." Even GWM_lv10 is not sure the outcome. However, GWM "looks" better in our eyes cuz 1) he's all offense on ZBT 2) ZBT said GWM'sAttack is "omnipotent" (meaning, ZBT cannot match palm-for-palm/man-to-man but ~defend only with VacantFist.)
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--- GWM's mentality at this time is "stable."
1) Unlike his previous "cowardness," he directly competed with all the "greats" (and indirectly competed with HYS, except GJ). Of course, that doesnt prevent from him using the easy-way-out (or "sane" enough to use this tactic), using GX as hostage and fake target.
2) I admit that GWM is "furious" when he was first hit and he retaliated. However, the next description of YG'sAttack on GWM seems to describe GWM pondering about YG's SadPalms, so he is still "sane" and observant. And not maddog or chicken.
3) GWM didnt blame YG for his own lost, and even ask YG to help him save GX.
4) I recall a japanese gy once replied regarding his "medal of honor" he won during the war and he said it was a medal of luck (that he "survived" or some such and not about "bravery")

Imperial Priest Jinlun was about to be victorious, suddenly he was hit on the shoulder. His chest hurt a lot and he was shaking, he [GWM got hit] was furious and surprised and attacked instantly again.
Yang Guo backed away and retaliated with [In A State Of Disunity], [Irrational Direction], [The Settled Cessation] and there was another technique falling these tree attacks, namely [The Meaningless Wanderer]. [I]This stance [by GWM's POV?] was a kick, but it was a most elusive attack. The Imperial Priest could only vaguely see a leg, it was there but it was not. It was improbable that he could avoid this kick. Bamm, he suffered a heavy kick at his chest he coughed up blood and fell. Both armies yelled, the Song yelled with joy and the Mongolians cried with surprise.
[...]
He took her in his arms and said to her:"Call me teacher me one more time." Guo Xiang looked up and saw tears in his eyes and called loudly:"Master!"
The Imperial Priest shouted:"Yang Guo, catch [GX]!"

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Temu: I really think the fight [GWM vs. YG] could take longer and the outcome could go either way if they were to fight fair and square without any distraction (Guo Xiang) with YG having the slight advantage of Sad Palms which would be activated if he's losing.
--- If the fight was "fair," YG will definitely win cuz like LiarLiar said: YG will "smart"-ly get his "sadness" going before the fight and then kick the crap out of the recently-noble GWM to the "English isles." And the fair fight is YG=GJ surely.
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Temu: GJ is definitely younger than the remaining Greats and ZBT, hence his inner power will last longer and will only increased with age. However, if YG and GJ were to fight all out and go at it , I still think the outcome is determined heavily by the unstable nature of Sad Palms, YG's mental state and experience, which GJ seems to be more consistant and better than YG. [...] But I would still put my money on GJ.
--- By your logic, YG is younger (so last longer) than GJ. As to experience, YG=HYS=ZBT=GWM, and these elders got "grand-daddy" experiences to boot, compared to YG. So more experience in this case doesnt mean much, and considering that "10 years" of 9Yin "only" ties with OYF in beginning of ROCH. Also, YG got DGQB's (and not some has-been) training for 16 years (actually it's only 7 out of 16 years but we "never know"). Considering many said DGQB defeated HS, even in a fan-fiction, I will put "my" money on YG. [j/k] Gotta support DGQB Jr. (aka YG).
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Liar: If GJ and YG were going to fighting, wouldn't YG now know he needed to be sad to battle GJ. Than sad palm should be dependable in that situation. You have to try your hardest when battling the best. If YG now know he is at best when he is sad, wouldn't he try his hardest to recall sad thought to make sure he is not in a disadvantage. [...]
--- Agreed wholeheartedly. Also, GJ would "want" YG to be in perfect "state-of-mind" for a "fair" fight.
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Liar: There is something I don't understand through when YG fought ZBT, why would he afaird of an inner energy contest, because I would agrue that contest will never happen. The only reason OYF and H7K had an inner energy battle was because OYF was crazy and disregarded his life. Nither ZBT or YG wanted
--- YG has a "set date" to meet (with XLN). It's like a "date"/promise where YG had to "be on time" so to speak. I think YG is afraid to die before meeting XLN: recall his last thought during his near defeat with GWM. [Nice question. ]Yeah, [j/k] unstable and unhealthy relationship (any takers? ) [Aside: I think there may be more reasons.] Maybe YG thinks he's a bit crazy: recall his "great-status nickname."
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Liar: By the way, I'm more of a GJ fans, but now I see YG is equally impressive with all the translation done. Look at the way, YG train, you can't help be impressive. It seem like he is pushing himself to his limit just to get great martial arts. Great will-power.
--- I am a YG fan and now I'm starting to like the "novel-based" GJ. I was biased from seeing that LOCH82 with that dumb GJ.
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Super: But as we can see, GJ was about a tie to GLFW in martial arts and internal energy. But it was also stated that GLFW has 20 years more time to cultivate, while GJ was luckier(probably 9 Yin).GJ trained for about 16-17 years of 9 Yin from LOCH to the battle at Mongolian camp. Therefore, although it's only assuming, GJ progess over twice the speed of GLFW's internal art with 9 Yin.
--- If you really want to know if GJ's 9Yin is as good as advertised:
1. compare age of GJ's innerPower at end of LOCH, and then compare YG's innerPower after battle with GWM at QZ Palace. If equal, then then there is a possibility that 9Yin=IronSword training.
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2. compare GJ's innerPower (10year 9Yin training at PeachBlossom Island) to YG's woodenSword training innerPower (7years of training). If equal, then there is a possibility that woodenSword training is better than 9Yin.
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3. Got better theory, later k?
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c38: VF requires a much lesser exertion of power and can still maintain its effectiveness. If YG is just throwing out sad palms and GJ is dodging and defending using soft neutralizing techniques, YG's bound to use up his inner power and allow GJ to retaliate.
--- Is there any proof VacantFist uses "lesser exertion"? However, I recall (distantly) a fight in GuLong novel about the "softest" technique vs. "hardest" technique and both did a neverending(?) battle ("tie"?). It's like the battle betw LuXiaoFung vs. ScarletBandit but more lofty? I think TigerWong/Meh/Athena/Moin can help here.

[superboy]

Super: But as we can see, GJ was about a tie to GLFW in martial arts and internal energy. But it was also stated that GLFW has 20 years more time to cultivate, while GJ was luckier(probably 9 Yin).GJ trained for about 16-17 years of 9 Yin from LOCH to the battle at Mongolian camp. Therefore, although it's only assuming, GJ progess over twice the speed of GLFW's internal art with 9 Yin.
--- If you really want to know if GJ's 9Yin is as good as advertised:
1. compare age of GJ's innerPower at end of LOCH, and then compare YG's innerPower after battle with GWM at QZ Palace. If equal, then then there is a possibility that 9Yin=IronSword training.
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2. compare GJ's innerPower (10year 9Yin training at PeachBlossom Island) to YG's woodenSword training innerPower (7years of training). If equal, then there is a possibility that woodenSword training is better than 9Yin.
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3. Got better theory, later k?
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c38: VF requires a much lesser exertion of power and can still maintain its effectiveness. If YG is just throwing out sad palms and GJ is dodging and defending using soft neutralizing techniques, YG's bound to use up his inner power and allow GJ to retaliate.
--- Is there any proof VacantFist uses "lesser exertion"? However, I recall (distantly) a fight in GuLong novel about the "softest" technique vs. "hardest" technique and both did a neverending(?) battle ("tie"?). It's like the battle betw LuXiaoFung vs. ScarletBandit but more lofty? I think TigerWong/Meh/Athena/Moin can help here.

If you read what I said, I never said that GJ's 9 Yin is neccesary better than YG's wave training method. But I only used the rate of GJ's improvement to speculate that it is more likely that GJ has long surpased the Greats at least in term of internal energy. 33 year old GJ being equal to the internal energy level of OYF in his 70s means that his internal energy increase much higher. I thought is is more likely than him suddenly slowed down and began growing only at the Greats level. Other than that, 9 Yins internal energy are also much superior than the cultivation method of a Great. So it still prove that it is not as likely for him to not improve faster than them, and be much greater at the end of ROCH.

And I found it sort of not a good idea to compare things in GuLon's novels with Jin Yongs on the softness part. Soft techniques does seems to use much less internal energy in JY's novel.