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Thread: another YG and GJ thread

  1. #1
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Default another YG and GJ thread

    sup every 1 got a question for u guys (an girls). IF YG had learned and perfected the 18 dragon palms (this an what if situation) yet still ran in to the condor powered up his inner power to the level he had by the end of roch would it be as powerful as QF's 18DP?and be able to take out GJ? I mean many of the greats were shocked at how overbearing YG's innerpower was no one he faced could match him in this catagory. It would have been a perfect match for the 18dragon palms which was an extreme yang technique. So what u guys think?

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    I don't think so. Because Sad Palm in full power is comparable to HL18Z. It won't be more powerful, but would increase his fighting effectiveness of having a palm that works all the time. YG's internal energy isn't that much greater than a Great.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    "We will have some commercials coming up. The discussion on XF vs GJ vs YG will continue afterwards. Stay tuned."

    Okay, back to the topic. The problem is that *maybe* it is not the Dragon Subduing Palm itself that matters in XF's case, but more on XF's talents. XF could learn any other martial art and I still believe he would be just as great. So, IMHO even if YG had learned and perfected the Dragon Subduing Palm, it would not be as powerful as XF's Dragon Subduing Palm.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    its not that YG's inner power is "greater" or not but its described as fierce and overbearing its the nature of his inner power that matches the aggressive style of DP.Im not sure i have never read DGSD but on a forum someons stated that XF agressive inner power was due to harsh physical training somewhat like what YG endured. as for the sad palms being equal to DP only in "full power". The Dragon palms were "only a match" for the GWM. Taking into account that GJ had improved as well as GWM (we dont know we never see him in action after YG and XLN spertaion) its fair to assume his around the level of GWM( again he could be BETTER or worse we dont know) but seeing how all the greats and gwm were close to dead locked at the end of ROCH lets just assume hes around the same level not better or worse. YG defeated GWM in three moves using the highest level of sad palms. Without using the highest level of sad palms he matched ZBT and fought to a standstill. Later after meeting up with WYS at GX birhtday he matched WYS DZST which without having sad palm in "full power ". im definitley not saying SP is stronger then 18DP and im not tryin to turn this into a SP vs18DP ...well alright i admit it iam so what u guys think?

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    XF is a different topic altogether. again, i just have to say that JY made him appear unstoppable in DGSD, so his abilites seem to have no limit...

    it's useless to compare to XF, because he'll just drink more wine and beat you up.

    on the topic of YG (because i am his greatest supporter, and i cannot leave any thread like this alone):

    sadpalm is the fullest expression of YG's whole martial arts training throughout his life. therefore, for HIM sadpalms is much better than HL18Z could ever be...however, sadpalms is definitely a unique technique to YG alone. no one else could fathom the pain that he endured while waiting for XLN...and only someone who went through that kind of heartbreak could even begin to learn sadpalms. however, HL18Z is a much more universal technique that EVERYONE can learn...admittedly, it is tough to master, but at least everyone can begin to learn it. sadpalms has much more strict requirements...but i guess if i learned evil-resisting sword art, i could learn sadpalms as well because i'd be so sad to lose my "little brother"...

    not losing his arm would change the philosophies of YG's martial arts considerably. not because he wouldn't wander to the cave, or anything like that...it's entirely possible that he would have ended up at the dugu cave anyways. it's just that with his loss of XLN, he would have drawn closer to the Guo family instead of becoming an isolated wanderer. the pros here are obviously that he learns HL18Z and 9yin, as well as refining dogbeating stick and learning every battle tactic that HR knows (he already showed his talent here with the 5 elements traps). the cons? he would have never trained in the way DGQB did --- instead of training in the stream, then the ocean, he would have just trained 9yin and never would have really dedicated his skill to dugu martial arts. he never would have hung out with the condor, because he certainly wouldn't have lived at the cave...he wouldn't live at the cave because he had the Guo home to come back to.

    basically, YG would have become a GJ clone instead of becoming his own hero. worse, he would have been gone from the story after jumping down the gorge to commit suicide, because nothing could rescue the couple from there except for the condor. imagine the horror...YG might have even gotten over XLN and married GF!!! now, we can't have that, no way...besides, we all have love for YeLuuQi, right?

    basically, losing his arm leads to everything he becomes later in the book, and ultimately his identity as his own hero in the JY universe. if he was the heir of the GJ/HR legacy, then there wouldn't even be the need for HSDS, because he would have stayed alive, learned both 9yin and the battle tactics, and kept his ironsword rather than have it made into two weapons.

    losing his arm is really the key to everything...by the way, i don't think he'd be better than GJ at using HL18Z. no one has ever been better than GJ, except perhaps XF. however, i DO think that YG would be better with 9yin, esp. because he already learned a part of it in the ancient cave, without help from anyone.
    Last edited by sixdays; 03-05-04 at 01:01 AM.
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  6. #6
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    YG defeated GWM in three moves using the highest level of sad palms
    Great analysis. I'm gonna save that one for later use

  7. #7
    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    I was not talking about whether YG's inner power is greater or not. I was talking about YG using Dragon Subduing Palm compared to XF using Dragon Subduing Palm, and in my opinion is that no matter what YG's Dragon Subduing Palm will not be as powerful as XF's. I basically put my opinion on XF's talents, I admit.

    I beg your pardon, but I guess my stubbornness is probably biased because I admittedly prefer GJ and XF much more than YG But I also want to repeat that I do not hate YG, I even gave him two thumbsup the other day on another thread

  8. #8
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    XF's internal power due to harsh physical training was just a speculation. We knew thwat he learned martial arts from Shaolin, which is probably yang type. As said earlier, since HYS commented that Sad Palms are comparable to HL18Z, they are probably equal. And HL18Z was described as the most Yang art in the world. And I think YG had already used the highest level of Sad Palms while fighting HYS and ZBT. I don't think that it was ever stated the sadder you are, the more powerful. YG's palm was not described to not be in full power during his fights with HYS and ZBT. While other times like at the start of his battle GLFW, JY let us know when his Sad Palms wasn't in full power.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  9. #9
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    yo 6D what if YG kept both arms learned 18DP but still had the dugu inner power training.drop conservative 9 yin do u think with that kind of agressive inner power mixed with extreme yang Dp he would just over power GJ...actually man jus drop that cause people thats the reason XF would overwhelm GJ(srry man GJs the man) lets just say make him equal to GJ.

  10. #10
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    In HSDS, ZWJ said 9 Yin and 9 Yang doesn't mix. So there couild be a problem if YG's energy is too Yang.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    A friend of mine once opined that in order for a martial artist to master a martial arts technique, his personality must be suitable for that technique. If a talented martial artist forces himself to train in a martial art that does not suit him/her, he/she might be able to learn it, but will never truly master it as he/she would another martial art that suits his/her personality better. Case in point: Left/Right Hand Technique. Of all the great martial artists of L/ROCH, only three (Chow Bak Tung, Gwok Jing, Little Dragon Girl) managed to learn it. Why? Because this martial art suited their temperament.

    Hong Lung 18 Palms was a martial art that favored straightforward personalities like those of Kiu Fung, North Beggar Hung 7 Gung, and Gwok Jing. Yeung Gor, a complex personality if there ever was one, was not suited for learning Hong Lung 18 Palms. With his intelligence and martial arts talent, Yeung Gor could probably learn the Hong Lung 18 Palms reasonably well, but I doubt he'd be able to master it to the degree that Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, and Gwok Jing did. It didn't suit his personality.

    On the other hand, sophisticated systems like East Heretic Wong Yerk See's martial arts, Ha Mo Gung, the Ancient Tomb Sect martial arts, and Dook Goo Kau Bai's sword theories suited Yeung Gor very well. Hence, Yeung Gor's Sad Palms also reflected a complex system . . . as befitted his personality. I think that if Yeung Gor hadn't lost his arm and stayed with the Gwoks to train his martial arts, it might, in the long run, have hampered his development. It's ironic, but losing his arm might have been the best thing that ever happened to Yeung Gor.

  12. #12
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superboy
    In HSDS, ZWJ said 9 Yin and 9 Yang doesn't mix.
    Cheung Mo Gei thought so, but his knowledge in this area is limited. It might very well be possible, but it would take an extraordinarily gifted martial artist (say, Cheung 3 Fung, as Cheung Mo Gei himself suggested) to have a reasonable chance of success.

  13. #13
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    i was refering to 18dp wit YG extreme yang inner power. GP KChen ill buy that

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    Senior Member - L1n -'s Avatar
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    it's very very very hard to mixed but it can be done. It's like 1 mistake and ur a gonna

  15. #15
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Yeah, it's probably quite dangerous to mix, like SPT.
    i was refering to 18dp wit YG extreme yang inner power. GP KChen ill buy that
    Actually, Yang energy may not neccesary give you an advantage in battle.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  16. #16
    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    Originally posted by superboy
    XF's internal power due to harsh physical training was just a speculation. We knew thwat he learned martial arts from Shaolin, which is probably yang type. As said earlier, since HYS commented that Sad Palms are comparable to HL18Z, they are probably equal. And HL18Z was described as the most Yang art in the world. And I think YG had already used the highest level of Sad Palms while fighting HYS and ZBT. I don't think that it was ever stated the sadder you are, the more powerful. YG's palm was not described to not be in full power during his fights with HYS and ZBT. While other times like at the start of his battle GLFW, JY let us know when his Sad Palms wasn't in full power.
    superboy...why do you always say that YG was trying his hardest with sadpalms while fighting ZBT and HYS? let me remind you:

    an injured YG defeated GLFW in 3 moves . PERIOD. just...3...moves. now, ZBT and HYS may be above the level of GLFW, but you have to admit that it's not by much...GLFW has been acknowledged by many to be at the level of the Greats. if an INJURED YG could defeat GLFW with 3 moves using full power, how would it reason that a HEALTHY YG only TIED with ZBT using full power? that just doesn't make any sense at all...obviously he did not use full strength while fighting his friend. btw, sorry if my tone is a bit aggressive...it's just that you always mention this point, and it has never made sense to me. no hard feelings

    to duguxiaojing:

    i was refering to 18dp wit YG extreme yang inner power.
    i see no problem with that at all. in fact, it would probably suit the kungfu well...but i don't think that he would overwhelm GJ. most people agree that YG's internal energy is more or less equal to GJ by the end of ROCH...im even willing to admit that he is lower, though not by much. also, HL18Z is GJ's trademark move, that he even improved with 9yin. with an internal energy with no sublety like YG's (as described by southern emperor yi deng), it may be somewhat difficult to match the changes that GJ could do, if they both learned HL18Z and tried to use it against each other. it'd kind of be like the fight between XF and GJ, except that YG does not have as much internal energy as XF. therefore, he'd probably lose if he used HL18Z.
    Last edited by sixdays; 03-05-04 at 01:35 AM.
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  17. #17
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Yeah rdi GJ does rock but we will get u on the YG bandwagon (me and 6d ( =( thats all ther is of yg fans)eventually dont judge him by those shitty adaptions or how he acts in the begining of ROCH if u readin noodles translat he learns from hes mistake at the end and kinda grows on u. B sides all the pro XF and anti YG makes me sick. yeah i no im gonn get it proboaly like evey 1 else who says anything slightly negative bout XF( for the record i have not mentioned anything bout his fighting ability) and it will start like this "XF is the only one blah blah beat every1 so bad blah they wont come back blah gets angry blah aura and chirismablah beat fighter with better techand inner power blah JY never described anyone else blah blah latent fighting potential blah natural fighting potential which grows more deadly blah blah when the threat blah increases killer instinct blah" and thats pretty much the gist of it just fill in the blahs with words prasing XF cause i get it man hes invincible no 1 can touch him..do i sound bitter?

  18. #18
    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    superboy...why do you always say that YG was trying his hardest with sadpalms while fighting ZBT and HYS? let me remind you:

    an injured YG defeated GLFW in 3 moves . PERIOD. just...3...moves. now, ZBT and HYS may be above the level of GLFW, but you have to admit that it's not by much...GLFW has been acknowledged by many to be at the level of the Greats. if an INJURED YG could defeat GLFW with 3 moves using full power, how would it reason that a HEALTHY YG only TIED with ZBT using full power? that just doesn't make any sense at all...obviously he did not use full strength while fighting his friend. btw, sorry if my tone is a bit aggressive...it's just that you always mention this point, and it has never made sense to me. no hard feelings
    Okay, is there anything that suggest otherwise? Because Jing Yong tells us when it's not in full power during the fight with GLFW. But I believe there is no such comments during his fight with ZBT and HYS. You also said a couple times that YG was not using max, but it seems very much that he was using his max during the competitions.
    "I will punish the evil and protect the weak, superboy is in a winning streak. The sky's peak is what I seek"

  19. #19
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by sixdays
    an injured YG defeated GLFW in 3 moves . PERIOD. just...3...moves.
    Three moves that the Golden Wheel Monk completely did not expect and was never ready for. The Golden Wheel Monk had not seen or fought Yeung Gor for sixteen years. The Yeung Gor he remembered had a nifty Iron Sword and an assortment of neat techniques, but NOTHING like the Sad Palms. If three moves were all it took to defeat the Golden Wheel Monk, forget about comparing Yeung Gor to the Greats . . . we'd be starting to pit him against the Janitor Monk. The context of that battle can't be ignored, however, because these factors do greatly affect outcomes.

  20. #20
    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    acutally it might of been 4 srry =( didnt he hit shoulder something back of skull then a boot ? hold up ill checkup on that..
    Last edited by duguxiaojing; 03-05-04 at 01:42 AM.

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