The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

[Extremer88]

The I-Ching is also known as "The Book of Changes". The only thing you need to know about it in wuxia is that many of the highest level martial arts are based on it.

Thanks Chrono, just read it up on Wiki, it seems I-Ching is also known as "易经", and I assume its nothing to do with the Shaolin's Yijin Jing . I never knew I-Ching was part of the five classics.

[Ken Cheng]

Note: not only did the "I-CHING" influence the creation of the Hong Lung 18 Palms, it also helped John Lennon to come up with lyrics for the Beatles' song "Tomorrow Never Knows" and George Harrison for the Beatles' song "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" - two of the best Beatles songs and the finest songs the two respective songwriters ever composed.

So I-CHING is great. It is the basis of one great martial art technique and at least two great Beatles songs.

[Extremer88]

The Beatles?

[sixdays]

lol, I had assumed you've already taken that into account. After all, SP should be on par with XL18P (as HYS experienced it).


The I-Ching is also known as "The Book of Changes". The only thing you need to know about it in wuxia is that many of the highest level martial arts are based on it.

now, as "fanboi" as i am about YG, even i have to admit that HYS didn't say Sad Palms were equal to XL18Z. IIRC, he said something to the effect of:

"in all of wulin, only my son-in-law's XL18Z can match the fierceness of this art."

and then proceeded to totally neutralize it with the divine flicking finger. HYS is such a weird guy...but i guess that's why he's got the heretic position.

[sixdays]

Note: not only did the "I-CHING" influence the creation of the Hong Lung 18 Palms, it also helped John Lennon to come up with lyrics for the Beatles' song "Tomorrow Never Knows" and George Harrison for the Beatles' song "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" - two of the best Beatles songs and the finest songs the two respective songwriters ever composed.

So I-CHING is great. It is the basis of one great martial art technique and at least two great Beatles songs.

sweet! i didn't know there were musician icons! being as i play the guitar for a living, this makes me kinda happy...

[Extremer88]

now, as "fanboi" as i am about YG, even i have to admit that HYS didn't say Sad Palms were equal to XL18Z. IIRC, he said something to the effect of:

"in all of wulin, only my son-in-law's XL18Z can match the fierceness of this art."

and then proceeded to totally neutralize it with the divine flicking finger. HYS is such a weird guy...but i guess that's why he's got the heretic position.

HYS' Divine Flick Finger managed to neutralise YG's Sad Palms but it did not match the fierceness of the Sad Palms after all. He just neutralised it.

[sixdays]

HYS' Divine Flick Finger managed to neutralise YG's Sad Palms but it did not match the fierceness of the Sad Palms after all. He just neutralised it.

so that begs the question: isn't neutralizing the move more important than matching its fierceness? if not, then i've been overestimating vacant fists this whole time, and probably all of tai chi too...

[ChronoReverse]

If you think about it, neutralizing is as good as equaling.

YG used the mighty power of his palms to send the henchmen over. HYS flicks a pebble which completely stops the henchmen deadstill and they drop straight down.

That can only rate as incredible in my book.

[sixdays]

The raging waterfall was not enough to drown out Yang Guo's thoughts.

"I must tell Uncle Guo," Yang Guo whispered. "I must make this right, but how? How can I ruin two lives in place of my own?" He began to recall. It was little Xiang's birthday -- her eighteenth. He had been lavish in his celebration, gathering the best heroes in all of Jiangnan to clear the city of any Mongolian presence. The outskirts of Xiang Yang were piled with the bodies of the fallen, but inside the city, the only sounds that could be heard were the clashing cymbals of the parades, and the sharp crack of the firecrackers announcing the coming womanhood of the Guo's youngest flower.


The inn was filled with Guo Xiang's closest family and friends, come far and wide to celebrate her big day. There was Reverd Yideng and Auntie Guo, engaged in deep conversation; Zhou Botong, the old urchin, was spinning a dozen plates on his fingers and toes as Xiao Long Nu laughed and clapped happily; even her estranged grandfather, Huang Yaoshi, played a chirping melody on his jade flute. His deep and profound internal energy propelled his play, filling the entire city with the happy tune.

Only Guo Fu could be unhappy on a day like this.

"Stupid girl. All this, and she has the gall to keep us waiting?" she grumbled, shoving the cakes the servant had placed before her to the floor. "I'll just have to drag her down here myself, even if I have to knock her unconscious."

A smile played at the corners of her lips.

"Preferably unconscious."



Guo Fu stomped up the stairs of the inn, leaving behind a trail of dusty splinters as she went. As she approached, Guo Fu could hear the faint cries of her sister. "No, Brother....it's not....I could never...Sister loves....so much..."


Guo Fu sped up her pace. Could it be that Xiang Er was up to something improper? "What Sister is she talking about anyways? Me? No, she also calls that Xiao Long Nu sister, because of her damned 'big brother' Yang Guo. I swear it, sometimes I believe that Xiang Er treats her better than she does me.

"Well, you're going to get it, little girl. Oh, you're going to get it. I can promise you tha --- aggghhh..." Guo Fu's rants turned to an intelligible moan, words failing to describe the hell before her. Her beloved husband, Yelu Qi, stared at her glassy eyed, his head cocked at an impossible angle. A crooked smile played on his lips. He seemed almost to be looking curiously at her, if not for the fact that his chin was aligned with his right shoulder. Yelu Qi's chest was collapsed, crushed by an incredible force. His ribs were shattered, organs were rendered useless. His bleeding arm was draped across a still form on the bed, naked save a few scraps of silk still clinging to the body.

As Guo Fu crept closer, she saw that the left side of his face was a pulpy mess. the eye burst, jaw smashed -- the awkward grin was a grimace of pain. He was beyond saving. She began beating on his still form with her fists: anger and pain and fear her fuel, her loneliness the reason. Even as she embraced his body through her sobs, she saw the body on the bed, a pool of blood spreading slowly spreading along its frame. With trembling fingers, she traced the pattern back to its source -- an ugly dagger rammed in Guo Xiang's right side with lethal force.

It was then that Guo Fu heard a noise behind her. She whirled in time to see a glimpse of a sleeve before a raging wind knocked her back against a beam of the bed. In her fading consciousness, Guo Fu could only mutter two words, over and over:

Yang Guo, Yang Guo...

well, returning to the original discussion...

the stage is set! GJ finds one daughter dead, the other with a concussion mumbling "Yang Guo", and another dead son-in-law. HR is holding XLN hostage, and YG is feeling guilty for something...what exactly, we don't know yet.


anyone care to place their bets before the fight begins? i know we've got a poll, but frankly we've also got 60+ pages of "Superboy" raging on anyone who likes YG. even i've got some 2-year old ramblings in there, probably. it'd be nice to get some fresh opinions.

and, away we go!

oh, and ah, regarding chrono:

If you think about it, neutralizing is as good as equaling.

YG used the mighty power of his palms to send the henchmen over. HYS flicks a pebble which completely stops the henchmen deadstill and they drop straight down.

That can only rate as incredible in my book.

i 100% agree with you, which was my point earlier also. still, YG created something that's as fierce as XL18Z, for crying out loud. man, that sure is something.

[Son of Light]

The question is who will win in the water, juices, soya bean milk and Tea drinking contests.

[sarakoth]

The question is who will win in the water, juices, soya bean milk and Tea drinking contests.

GJ is more hardocre than YG (raised in Mongolia compared to raised in a tomb), so GJ would win.

[JusTea242]

Was GWM confirmed inferior to YG or was he just reckless?

[druid]

When HYS was commenting about YG's sad palms, he said that only GJ's XL18Z can be compared to it. I wonder why he did not mention about about his fellow Great (H7G) palm set? Was it because he was only referring to the living? If not, was he well aware that were significant changes in GJ's set?

[PJ]

Yeah, Huang Yaoshi did say "Of the living, only Guo Jing's XL18Z can match it..."

“老弟这一路掌法，以力道的雄劲而论，当世唯小婿郭靖的降龙十八掌可以比拟。

[Exodus]

what's the point we all know that GJ's palm was better than H7G

[shenlong]

YG's palms multiplies in power, and when he demonstrated it to HYS he was still missing XLN. So if XLN were to die, YG's palms would greatly outmatch GJ's.

[PJ]

YG's palms multiplies in power, and when he demonstrated it to HYS he was still missing XLN. So if XLN were to die, YG's palms would greatly outmatch GJ's.

Xiao Yuanshan's power also multiplied when he went berserk. I think he should be up there with the Sweeper Monk. Oh wait, he was killed by the Sweeper Monk in one stance...

[shenlong]

Xiao Yuanshan's power also multiplied when he went berserk. I think he should be up there with the Sweeper Monk. Oh wait, he was killed by the Sweeper Monk in one stance...

Wait... what?

I don't get how this has to do with YG and GJ.

[PJ]

You have to read my statement many times meticulously to extract the subtle references within.

[shenlong]

You have to read my statement many times meticulously to extract the subtle references within.

I get the subtle similarities, but the situation there is in no way the same as Yang Guo and Guo Jing.