The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

[ChronoReverse]

Agreed, JY was probably still thinking of pre-snake bladder YG. It also would be difficult to fix since it's a critical scene.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Yeung Gor's inner power post-snake organs, however, were evidently in the neighborhood of the Greats. No other way he could have sustained that inner power struggle with the Golden Wheel Monk, or that skirmish with Kau Cheen Yan.

not necessarily...

with the superior weapon, YG was able to cut through GWM's wheels. but it was still quite clear that his internal energy was inferior to GWM's despite being able to be in a dead lock with the monk.

if you look back in LOCH, GJ was able to deadlock palms with H7G (or at least withstand a full blast from H7G), but it doesn't necessarily mean his internal energy was in the vicinity of the greats...

[Ken Cheng]

if you look back in LOCH, GJ was able to deadlock palms with H7G (or at least withstand a full blast from H7G), but it doesn't necessarily mean his internal energy was in the vicinity of the greats...

Come to think of it, that never made a lick of sense either. Gwok Jing, at the time, had (at best) 70% of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung's internal energy. That being the case, how could he have met a full-powered strike from Hung 7 Gung head on? The math just doesn't work out. Hung 7 Gung must have retracted at least some of the power, otherwise Gwok Jing would have been knocked down or injured (or both).

[Ken Cheng]

Yang Guo probably also knows the full 9 Yin cause Lady Yang knows the full 9 Yin

*After* the story of ROCH had ended, perhaps, but not at any time during the story. Where would Yeung Gor have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging from? Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung certainly didn't leave that much behind at the Ancient Tomb compound. The only source that Yeung Gor could have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging text from was Gwok Jing and Wong Yung or South Monk 1 Deng.

[Tom]

Li Mochou, IMO, seems to be stronger than any of the Quanzhen Seven or the Mongolian lackeys alone. Basically her power is on par or close to that of Huang Rong's.

And to the excerpt above, did Jin Yong ever say how much Yang Guo advanced after the Dugu training? It seems like he only fought on par with Jinlun Fawang at Quanzhen because of his superior techniques.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Come to think of it, that never made a lick of sense either. Gwok Jing, at the time, had (at best) 70% of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung's internal energy. That being the case, how could he have met a full-powered strike from Hung 7 Gung head on? The math just doesn't work out. Hung 7 Gung must have retracted at least some of the power, otherwise Gwok Jing would have been knocked down or injured (or both).

it was said that H7G knew it was his last chance to win (and he certainly wanted to), so he went out full blast (and immediately regretted since he was afraid he might hurt GJ). he was "pleasantly" surprised that GJ was able to withstand the palms. of course he did loosen his energy afterwards, but the initial force was full blast

[david1025]

*After* the story of ROCH had ended, perhaps, but not at any time during the story. Where would Yeung Gor have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging from? Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung certainly didn't leave that much behind at the Ancient Tomb compound. The only source that Yeung Gor could have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging text from was Gwok Jing and Wong Yung or South Monk 1 Deng.

Yang Guo knew the main parts of 9 Yin and it's possible that the 9 Yin taught to him by Ouyang Feng contained the parts that was not written inside the tomb so since Yang Guo is intelligent he might figure out how to combine both of the 9 Yin he knew to form the full 9 Yin

[Athena]

Li Mochou, IMO, seems to be stronger than any of the Quanzhen Seven or the Mongolian lackeys alone. Basically her power is on par or close to that of Huang Rong's.

And to the excerpt above, did Jin Yong ever say how much Yang Guo advanced after the Dugu training? It seems like he only fought on par with Jinlun Fawang at Quanzhen because of his superior techniques.

No, she isn't. At least Ma Yu, Liu Chuxuan, Qiu Chuji and Wang Chuyi should be superior to her. Hao Datong and Sun Bu'er are a tad weaker than her.
The warriors hired by the Mongolians are even stronger than the Five Masters (of course in one-on-one scenarios).

[ChronoReverse]

Come to think of it, that never made a lick of sense either. Gwok Jing, at the time, had (at best) 70% of North Beggar Hung 7 Gung's internal energy. That being the case, how could he have met a full-powered strike from Hung 7 Gung head on? The math just doesn't work out. Hung 7 Gung must have retracted at least some of the power, otherwise Gwok Jing would have been knocked down or injured (or both).

Probably because of the technique used. GJ had room to launch the attack as H7G did.

Besides, H7G had launched 300 strokes at this point and it was stated that his stamina was decreasing.

[Ken Cheng]

Yang Guo knew the main parts of 9 Yin and it's possible that the 9 Yin taught to him by Ouyang Feng contained the parts that was not written inside the tomb so since Yang Guo is intelligent he might figure out how to combine both of the 9 Yin he knew to form the full 9 Yin

Au Yeung Fung didn't have the opportunity to teach Yeung Gor much of the 9 Yum Jen Ging, and at any rate, Au Yeung's version was horribly screwed up. Yeung Gor recognized how messed up Au Yeung Fung's version was when he compared it to the fragment that he got from the Ancient Tomb Compound.

Moreover, Au Yeung Fung did not have the most important component of the 9 Yum Jen Ging - the Sanskrit inner power building portion. At the end of ROCH, only three people in the world were conversant in that part of the 9 Yum Jen Ging: Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, and 1 Deng.

An artifacts exchange had to have happened sometime post-ROCH because Gwok Jing and Wong Yung somehow gained possession of the Heavy Iron Sword (from which they would forge the Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre). Since we never saw Yeung Gor giving them the sword during ROCH, they must have met up one more time post-ROCH (or at least, corresponded through their intermediaries). The complete 9 Yum Jen Ging for the Heavy Iron Sword sounds like a pretty equitable deal.

[duguxiaojing]

Moreover, Au Yeung Fung did not have the most important component of the 9 Yum Jen Ging - the Sanskrit inner power building portion. At the end of ROCH, only three people in the world were conversant in that part of the 9 Yum Jen Ging: Gwok Jing, Wong Yung, and 1 Deng.

I thought the sanskrit part was only the "final portion" of 9yin's inner power portion and not the full thing. IIRC ZBT unconsciously practiced 9yin's inner power methods.

[Ken Cheng]

I thought the sanskrit part was only the "final portion" of 9yin's inner power portion and not the full thing. IIRC ZBT unconsciously practiced 9yin's inner power methods.

The Sanskrit portion was very important. Without it, the user will never reach the full potential of the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

This portion made the difference between Hung 7 Gung regaining his status as a Great or being a (martial arts) cripple for the rest of his life. Without this portion, Gwok Jing likely doesn't reach Greats level by his thirties either.

[Exodus]

*After* the story of ROCH had ended, perhaps, but not at any time during the story. Where would Yeung Gor have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging from? Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung certainly didn't leave that much behind at the Ancient Tomb compound. The only source that Yeung Gor could have gotten the full 9 Yum Jen Ging text from was Gwok Jing and Wong Yung or South Monk 1 Deng.

1 Deng knew 9 ying? thought he only knew the sanskrit part of it

[PJ]

This might be one of those moments where Jin Yong had a mindfart when he referred to Lee Mok Sau's inner power being that strong because we know, from her combat record, that her inner power wasn't that extraordinarily strong. She made her name on her poisonous weapons and her cruelty, not her inner power. Not only was her inner power not a patch on any Great's (remember how she fled in terror from Ga Hing Village when she heard Gwok Jing and Wong Yung calling out to their condors), it probably wasn't even a match for Yau Chui Gei's or that of the better Mongol mercenaries (i.e. Lui Mor Singh, Siu Seung Tze, and Wan Hak Sai).

Yeung Gor's inner power post-snake organs, however, was evidently in the neighborhood of the Greats. No other way he could have sustained that inner power struggle with the Golden Wheel Monk, or that skirmish with Kau Cheen Yan.

Yep, this definitely sounds like a Jin Yong Brainfart. Great find, pannonian.

[Ken Cheng]

Yep, this definitely sounds like a Jin Yong Brainfart. Great find, pannonian.

Pannonian?

[PJ]

Pannonian?

Yep, he's the one who dug up the translation for this excerpt.

[Ken Cheng]

Yep, he's the one who dug up the translation for this excerpt.

Yeah, but don't I get part credit for judging it a mindfart?

[PJ]

Yeah, but don't I get part credit for judging it a mindfart?

Sure, credits are a flexible thing.

[jin_yong_fan]

guo jing is a peace loving guy. he never did care for martial arts. he just coincidentally learned the powerful good stuff and decided to do some good with it. also we can say that between loch and roch guo jing's martial art didnt really improve much. the only improvement in his martial art was his internal energy. he didnt learn any new set of martial art nor did he create his own set of martial art. he jus continued to use his dragon palms and continued to practice all truth's sects' internal energy.

yang guo on the other hand pursued learning martial arts and expanded his horizon. to begin with yang guo learned different types of martial arts from experts and greats. first his god-father-west poison, his master/wife, his friend-east eccentric, senior dugu, taoist wong chong yang, and etc. he learned a variety of martial arts and all were really strong. he was able to understand them all and take parts of each and mix them together, adding his own thing to it too, creating his own martial art the sad palm.

so i think with this much yang guo would be better. he would try to pursue and gain more knowledge bout martial arts while guo jing would jus continue to help others and be the heroic person. yang guo would win. of course we would never know cuz yang guo respects his uncle guo so much and uncle guo loves yang guo so much too.

[Athena]

From chapter 29.

As it turned out, Li Mochou and Yang Guo’s combined strength was helping
Xiao Longnu clear her pressure point. Li Mochou’s strategic moves were
quite inferior to the Yang-Long couple but speaking of cultivated
energy, hers was far deeper than theirs. Suddenly receiving such strong
energy, Xiao Longnu felt the energy push vigorously through her “Middle
Altar” point and that heat filled up her abdomen. Her spirits lifted and
she called out, “Wonderful, many thanks to Shi Zi [Apprentice Elder
Sister]!” She let go of Yang Guo’s right foot and leapt down from the
Chilled Jade Bed.

In energy terms, Yang Guo was below Li Mochou, even after eating those gall bladders and learning HIS.

That is referring to the attainment of internal energy cultivation. Yang Guo's (raw) internal power was superior to Li Mochou, but in terms of internal alchemy study he was still inferior to her.
Zhang Wuji's internal energy rivals Zhang Sanfeng's, but in terms of cultivation he is still behind Zhang Sanfeng. In chapter 36 of HSDS, Wuji saw the whips of the three Du generation monks and thought that he could not do the same thing as they did with internal energy.
Basically, the Du generation monks had purer energy than he did. I believe the same trail of thought applies to Li Mochou.

It is true that Jin Yong does make mistakes, but don't be too hasty to write things of as 'brain farts' and so. Mr Cha is still Jin Yong!