The *Official* Gwok Jing vs. Yeung Gor Debate

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by -NSX-
GJ = GWM at the begining of ROCH
GJ < GWM at the end of ROCH
YG > GWM at the end of ROCH

Doesn't that make YG > GJ?

It would if you could prove that any of those axioms is true.

And therein lies the heart of the matter . . .

[superboy]

The thing is, GJ wasn't inferior to GLFW at the end since they had never fought. At least in the novel. I gotta say many adaptations protrayed GJ quite weak.

[superboy]

Can we make a rule that all the detailed debates on this thread such as battles should be based only with the novel?

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by superboy
Can we make a rule that all the detailed debates on this thread such as battles should be based only with the novel?

We do (check out the first post), but it's up to posters themselves to adhere to those rules.

[superboy]

Man, many are like me not reading the rules . The reasons they used from adaptations are wasting my finger strength just to tell them that it's incorrect.

[superboy]

I don't think that you take into account that Gj also improves too. And at a much faster rate than GLFW too.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by superboy
The thing is, GJ wasn't inferior to GLFW at the end since they had never fought. At least in the novel. I gotta say many adaptations protrayed GJ quite weak.

The problem is that in ROCH YG was the main hero. GJ was the hero in LOCH, but in ROCH he was *just* a supporting character. So, even if GJ > YG, the adaptations probably prefer to portray GJ as being weaker. sigh

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by -NSX-
GJ and GWM are somewhat at the same level at the begining of ROCH. It was mentioned that GWM martial arts increased dramatically at the end of ROCH; therefore, he is superior to GJ.

You're assuming Gwok Jing's martial arts remained static during all those years, which hasn't been proven and moreover, goes against the fundamental principles of the main source of his power (the 9 Yum Jen Ging). Remember what has been said about the 9 Yum Jen Ging: once its inner power development skill has been mastered, the user's inner power grows constantly and gradually, whether the user actively practices it or not. Such were among the many wonders of 9 Yum Jen Ging.

[superboy]

GLFW too, only mentioned that he practiced his art to the 10th level, but he was a lot stronger even when it was only an internal energy art. People in DGSD shows us that there is no limit yet known in improving one's skills. The Greats never learned any knew martiala rts, yet they still improved a lot. GJ in the other hand, got many.

[superboy]

What best skill to another level? In terms of powerful skills, GLFW's LJBYG is not comparible to GJ's 9 Yin 's cultivation. And GJ had already slightly surpassed GLFW at the start of ROCH at the age of 30 years younger than him. It is likely that the gap will likely to be larger and large unless someone can give a good reason that GJ will slack off. If we take GJ's improvement rate from LOCH too ROCH, GLFW's improvement rate were nothing.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by -NSX-
GWM = GJ at the start of ROCH

Facts:

- GWM power increased dramatically at the end of ROCH.

"Dramatically". How much? Twice as strong? Three times as strong? Ten times as strong? Jin Yong didn't say. The Golden Wheel Monk had gotten better. So had Gwok Jing. So had Yeung Gor. How much is anybody's guess.

- YG woop GWM's arse at the end of ROCH

Yeung Gor won the fight. It was one hell of a struggle. It was a fine dividing line between the end of ROCH that we got, and an ending that featured the heroes of Seung Yeung mourning the death of Yeung Gor.

[superboy]

Hey, if your reasons were convincing, we would have shutted already. If you read the agruments, you will find that almost the whole thing is arguing the improvement possibility.

[ToOn99]

ha...ha...ha, whatever excuses are u trying to make, YG was still < GJ

[superboy]

Originally posted by Anonymous
--- That was the end of LOCH, now in ROCH and after the 16years, this doesnt work. The "greats" are much better. Refer to my prev-previous msg (regarding innerPower).
.
.
.
Now, get ready GJ fans for a "disasterous" revelation:
1. YG knows 9Yin innerPower techniques! (how much, we dont know). Just as I thought cuz WangChongYang use 9Yin to defeat JadeHeartManual's innerPowerTraining (which includes QZ innerPowerTraining), which in turn defeat QZ's_innerPOwerTraining. Think about this: add QZ advancedTraining, add "JadeHeartManual", and add in DGQB's training and YG has a higher chance to kick GJ's butt. [These examples are techniques that could increase innerPower over time.][I was actually edit/search YG using QZ innerPower techniques and I got the motherlode!]

--- After this revelation, why didnt YG (or did he?) continue to train 9Yin innerPower if it's all powerful? [One arm can still "circulate"/train the power.] Could it be that DGQB's techniques are "better"? Now why couldnt YG have twice the innerPower accumulation that GJ once enjoyed against GWM?
--- For those who voted for GJ, it's not too late to switch sides.

I don't think it was mentioned that YG knew any internal energy of 9 Yin at all right? And we also never sees hims cultivate 9 Yin energy. JY also remarked that YG's knowledge of 9 Yin cannot compare to GJ. I believe the Jade Heart manual mainly counters the techniques of QZ. 9 Yin is two very comprehensive manual. The internal energy part was created after HS compiled thousands of taoist internal cultivation skills and made the best one possible. YG knows only the tip of 9 Yin.

[Ken Cheng]

Originally posted by superboy
I don't think it was mentioned that YG knew any internal energy of 9 Yin at all right? And we also never sees hims cultivate 9 Yin energy. JY also remarked that YG's knowledge of 9 Yin cannot compare to GJ. I believe the Jade Heart manual mainly counters the techniques of QZ. 9 Yin is two very comprehensive manual. The internal energy part was created after HS compiled thousands of taoist internal cultivation skills and made the best one possible. YG knows only the tip of 9 Yin.

The Jade Heart Manual does include some internal cultivation techniques. Both Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl received a significant boost in their inner power as a result of having practiced with this manual. The Jade Heart Manual's inner power yield, however, was not comparable to that of the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

Significantly, the portion of the 9 Yum Jen Ging that Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl had access to did include the Yik Gun Deun Gwut Peen . . . the same skill that in LOCH had enabled North Beggar Hung 7 Gung to fully recover from the injuries he had received at the hands of West Poison Au Yeung Fung and fully rebuild his internal power. Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl did *not*, however, have access to the portion of the 9 Yum Jen Ging that Wong Seung had written in Sanskrit (the portion that South Emperor 1 Deng the Monk translated into Chinese script for Gwok Jing in LOCH). This Sanskrit portion was the heart of the 9 Yum Jen Ging's internal cultivation methods (arguably the most important part of the manual, and the part that truly separated the 9 Yum Jen Ging as the *Uber* martial art of its time).

[superboy]

Thanks Ken, I totally forgot the details.

[rabadi]

Originally posted by superboy
And also, a quote from an expert that read the 3rd version: Two times Yang Guo thought that Guo Jing was peerless, the first time when he saw the two idiotic Wu brothers fighting each other. The second time he returned to Xiangyang after Guo Fu hacked off his arm, he thought about revenge. In his thoughts he said that:"Uncle Guo's 18 Dragon Subdueing Palms were likely to be invicible in the world."
By the way, Yang Guo never thought himself to be number 1 after learning the heavy sword skill of Dugu.

So now in the new version, YG no longer thought that he's invincible with his Iron Sword. Can you see that JY was trying to say something? A couple of years back, GJ was just as good as OYF, but know YG after meeting all the powerful martial arts master has said GJ was the best.

To superboy: may I have the link from which you get the quote from the expert you mentioned above?

[superboy]

Why would you want a quote from my Private Message?

[rabadi]

It was from a private message? Sorry I didn't know, 'cause when you posted it you mentioned it was from some expert who has read the third version, so I wonder where was the opinion posted (since I do not recall reading it here in SPCNet).

[superboy]

It's okay.