Jiumozhi, Sweeper Monk, Xiao Yao Pai

[Ren Wo Xing]

Those two have some strange connection to Xiao Yao Pai that's never been explained to my satisfaction, either in the novel or elsewhere. How did Jiumozhi ever learn Xiao Wu Xiang Gong? And, how did Sweeper Monk immediately recognize that Jiumozhi used Xiao Wu Xiang Gong. Neither was explained at ALL in the book, and are a great mystery. The only people who knew XWXG was Wuyazi and Li Qiushui. Li Qiushui was in Xi Xia, not Tu Bo, and taught it to no one, to my knowledge. Wuyazi was an invalid for decades, and never taught that skill (to the best of my knowledge) to any of his disciples. Tien Shan Tong Lao used BH6HWWDZG, not practicing XWXG. Even the names "XWXG" and "BMSG" are known very very rarely; Tien Shan Tong Lao remarked that one of her SUBORDINATES, the leader of one of the 72 caves/isles, was impressive because he knew that name. Outside of her circle, how could others possibly know not only the name, but be able to recognize it with ease?

Where did Jiumozhi learn it from?

And how could Sweeper Monk recognize it, when he had been sweeping the floors of Shaolin for several decades, never leaving?

Personally, I swear Sweeper Monk had some relation with Xiao Yao Pai. Maybe WYZ/LQS/TSTL's teacher :P

[- L1n -]

ok ji mo zhi only no's xwxg becos of murong bo who had the maual becos of his connection to wuyazi's daughter. Sweeper could npot be their teacher othjerwise he would ahve to be like 150 yrs old



sweeper is a kungfu master i think he would of stuf=died all kinds of kungfu, plus xiao yao pai was probably well known to masters of jiang hu

[Ren Wo Xing]

That's the thing. Xiao Yao Pai was NOT known to the elites of the world. It was an -extremely- secretive organization. When DCQ and XZ fought at the gathering at Shaolin, no one there, not even Wang Yu Yan who knew the martial arts secrets of just about every sect in the world, had any idea what sect's martial arts those two were using.

It's a possibility that MRB taught JMZ XWXG, but there's no evidence of that whatsoever. Firstly, there's no known 'manual' to XWXG save cave carvings. Secondly, WYZ's daughter didn't know XWXG. Finally, MRB's dealings with JMZ was stated in the book to be related to the 72 Shaolin Ultimate Arts, and not the techniques of Xiao Yao Pai.

[Ken Cheng]

I've never much liked the idea of the Janitor Monk being affiliated with the Siu Yiu Sect. I kind of like the idea that Jin Yong's ultimate fighter was from the most well-known and mainstream of martial sects, the Shaolin Temple. There's just something . . . right about it. Most of the Siu Yiu Sect folks were evil and/or downright weird. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the idea that the most powerful martial arts in the JY canon were in their hands.

[superboy]

Who knows, since we don't now much about Sweeper Monk's young life. Perhaps he got a story of his own relatied to the Xiao Yao Sect that JY just never wrote anything about.

[CC]

Just because he recognises XWXG doesn't count much towards him being from Xiao Yao Pai. Its easier to rationalise that he either saw WYZ or LQS or even their master in action when he was younger or amongst that big pile of Shaolin books there was one which described the notable kung fus of the various sects.

[Ren Wo Xing]

But he's a person who's obviously never even witnessed XL18Z (as evinced by his remark that "XL18Z, it truly is one of the greatest skills under heaven"), directly implying that he had only heard of, yet never witnessed XL18Z in person. What's the chance that he's going to find or have met something from -Xiao Yai Pai-, if he hadn't even from the 'Tien Xia Di Yi Da Bang'? Plus, JMZ wasn't fighting at that time; just by looking at him, he was able to immediately discern that JMZ used XWXG internal energy. That's not exactly easy, unless he had -some- sort of actual, in-depth knowledge of XWXG. After all, even if he saw LQS/WYZ in action, XWXG is a form of -internal- energy, not something external which can be easily recognized through movements/stances/etc.

I never thought of the book idea, though, that's a good one. But then again, it's Xiao Yao Pai. Where could one find a manuscript on THEM? There's no evidence either that Shaolin harbored martial arts manuscripts from other schools (what are they supposed to be, the Murongs? ), much less from this most secretive of all sects.

[CC]

He doesnt need the actual manuscripts. But just some kind of book which describes the effects and styles of the other sects kung fu, not the actual instructions. A sect like Shaolin should have info like that.

Anyway, when the abbot sounded the gong to call all shaolin members to the great hall when JMZ arrived, maybe sweeper was there with his broom and witnessed the fight. Even if he did not, its not too far of a stretch that he can discern JMZ's inner energy from looking at him since this is Sweeper Monk aka Bad Mofo #1 of the universe and he could probably tell the size and weight of JMZ's left nut just by looking at his face.

I mean, there are so many more likely explanations then 'sweeper was a xiao yao member'.

As for not having witnessed Dragon palms, it is possible since he never left shaolin for years and maybe Wang Jian Tong used dog beating stick more and China is big, so its no biggy if you never witnessed Dragon palms first hand. Or maybe he had seen it in action but was never at the receving end and he was praising Xiao Feng's execution as well as the skill.

[Xiao Feng]

Originally posted by CC
...since this is Sweeper Monk aka Bad Mofo #1 of the universe and he could probably tell the size and weight of JMZ's left nut just by looking at his face.

Cracked me up no end this...LOL

[Battosai]

Originally posted by CC
He doesnt need the actual manuscripts. But just some kind of book which describes the effects and styles of the other sects kung fu, not the actual instructions. A sect like Shaolin should have info like that.

Anyway, when the abbot sounded the gong to call all shaolin members to the great hall when JMZ arrived, maybe sweeper was there with his broom and witnessed the fight. Even if he did not, its not too far of a stretch that he can discern JMZ's inner energy from looking at him since this is Sweeper Monk aka Bad Mofo #1 of the universe and he could probably tell the size and weight of JMZ's left nut just by looking at his face.

I mean, there are so many more likely explanations then 'sweeper was a xiao yao member'.

As for not having witnessed Dragon palms, it is possible since he never left shaolin for years and maybe Wang Jian Tong used dog beating stick more and China is big, so its no biggy if you never witnessed Dragon palms first hand. Or maybe he had seen it in action but was never at the receving end and he was praising Xiao Feng's execution as well as the skill.

There doesn't seem to be any indication that Shaolin had any good knowledge of Taoist MA. And the monk's inability to recognize XL18Z is a big deal and a clue, maybe.

Monk's inability to know 18Z is an acknowledgment that his martial knowledge is not omnicient; given this fact, that he recognized XYP, a sect more secretive than the beggar clan, is a significant point. Doesn't mean he was a member but given his mysterious nature, more sound speculation than anything else.

It's still speculation but at least based on some observations, whereas any other speculations are totally baseless.

[Ren Wo Xing]

What Battosai said

The monk knows Xiao Yao Pai but not Gai Bang.

o.O

O.o

Something's fishy, hehe

[ruroshin]

[i]
I never thought of the book idea, though, that's a good one. But then again, it's Xiao Yao Pai. Where could one find a manuscript on THEM? There's no evidence either that Shaolin harbored martial arts manuscripts from other schools (what are they supposed to be, the Murongs? ), much less from this most secretive of all sects. [/B]

You never know, I mean 9 Yang pop up out of shaolin from nowhere. Who knows what else is hidden in those temples.

[superboy]

Who knows, maybe 9 Yang was written by Sweeper Monk after he knew YJJ were stolen.

[CC]

Originally posted by superboy
Who knows, maybe 9 Yang was written by Sweeper Monk after he knew YJJ were stolen.

I hate these kinds of wild speculations but the 9 Yang by Sweeper Monk theory actually fits in with Sweeper Monk's character.

Just like he put scriptures next to the kung fu manuals for MRB and XYS to read, the 9 Yang kung fu was put into a book of scriptures. If he really wrote a kung fu, he surely would have mixed it in with scriptures.

Heck, maybe XYS and MRB wrote it together.

[atlantean0208]

doesn't there exist a rumour that 9 Yang was created by Damo?

[Candide]

I have no explanation of JMZ knowing XWXG other than that it's a very Taoist kungfu, like Quanzhen or 9 Yin, and therefore JMZ's version might be a little different to the XWXG of XYP.

As for Sweeper Monk, we need to look at the part when Xu Zhu first met TSTL. TSTL asked him who were his superiors, and then she addressed them as "the little monks". Xu Zhu asked why, she said: because I and their master, Ling-something, were equal. This could imply that half a century before DGSD, Shaolin and Xiao Yao Pai had some kind of connection, as TSTL didn't know anything about the younger generations of Shaolin but knew the names from the older ones. Sweeper Monk belonged to that old generation, so he could have some knowledge of XYP. Additionally, the Damo Hall of Shaolin was created to study the martial arts of the world, they probably had XYP's kungfus documented somewhere, and SM, being a bookworm, might have read all of that.

To think about it, Shaolin's library had lots of cool shit, didn't it ? Heck, these guys didn't even realise that they had 9 Yang Shen Gong in their library for so many years... I bet they even had copies of XYP's kungfus and possibly even better ones than what WYZ, LQS and TSTL knew, but the latter generations of Shaolin didn't realise that

[Candide]

Originally posted by CC
I hate these kinds of wild speculations but the 9 Yang by Sweeper Monk theory actually fits in with Sweeper Monk's character.

It doesn't.

Just like he put scriptures next to the kung fu manuals for MRB and XYS to read, the 9 Yang kung fu was put into a book of scriptures. If he really wrote a kung fu, he surely would have mixed it in with scriptures.

He wouldn't write it on the margins. He had all the time in the world. He could write a two volume manual (like 9 Yin), one about Buddhism and one about martial arts.

Heck, maybe XYS and MRB wrote it together.

Their kungfus are more like 9 Yin (attacking and controlling the fight first) than 9 Yang (waiting for the opponent to move first).

Now here's my speculation:

Since TSTL, WYZ and LQS had some sort of relationship with the older generations of Shaolin, it's possible that their master had some connection with Shaolin too. Possibly XYP and Shaolin had some martial art exchange and maybe friendly competition. Let's say the XYP master and the Shaolin Abbot then were buddies. So near the end of his life, the XYP master wrote 9 Yang Shengong, and brought it to Shaolin to show it to his buddy Abbot. Now the Abbot could be accompanied by one of his favourite disciples, or martial brother, or one of them just happened to know about this martial art exchange and learnt about the existance of 9 Yang Shen Gong. So when the two masters were playing chess somewhere, this guy stole the original 9 Yang manual and quickly copied it down to one of the sutras he was learning and carrying with him all the time, the Lanka. Then he returned the original 9 Yang manual back to its place... Since he pirated this manual, he never wrote it down to a proper book, but just kept it in the Lanka sutra instead, since it was in Sanskrit and not many would bother reading it, reducing his chance of getting caught... This explains why 9 Yang had Taoist roots and was written inbetween the text of the Lanka in a very unprofessional manner.

Now let me contact this TVB director and try to sell him my script...

[PJ]

JY should really do a prequel to DGSD.

[CC]

Originally posted by Candide
It doesn't.



He wouldn't write it on the margins. He had all the time in the world. He could write a two volume manual (like 9 Yin), one about Buddhism and one about martial arts.

He could, but his experience with the 2 book snatchers showed that people might just take the 2nd volume on martial arts and dump the 1st volume on scriptures. So he made sure that everytime the martial arts instructions was read, the dang scriptures would stare the guy in the face.


As for XYP elder inventing 9 Yang, the XYP skills all tended to be more yin. 9 Yangs theories of moving later etc etc doesn't gel with XYP style. And with the all mighty Bei Ming and Xiao Wu and Ba Hwang, 9 Yang doesn't seem that stupendous.

[PJ]

I kind of like the idea that Jin Yong's ultimate fighter was from the most well-known and mainstream of martial sects, the Shaolin Temple.

You do?! Not me though. I kind of like the theory that Sweeper Monk is related to Xiao Yao Pai Also, if he was from XYP, then his enlightenment proves not all XYP catz must be evil or downright weird all the time.