Gu Long Elites vs Jin Yong's Sweeper Monk/Dugu

[Dirt]

Gu Long always goes for the 'cool' factor.

[Meh]

Originally posted by TigerWong
The thing is, I feel that the descriptions in his earlier works are the ones that impress me more. Like I mentioned earlier, for me, I try not to overreact regarding his descriptive style in his later novels (i.e. too fast for the eye to see, never misses, etc, etc). But if you examine some of the feats that were accomplished, especially in his epics and earlier work, they were quite impressive in and of themselves, with no need for GL's "sales pitch".

The problem with his earlier works though, is that he tends to be too blunt with his characters' abilities. So it's the same comic-book feel w/o the metaphors. But the intended effect is the same. The reader is suppose to go "Holy S***" when reading. Whereas with JY, because of how much he explains the actions in detail and the wuxi-logic behind them, makes these actions seem realistic. Relatively speaking, of course.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by Meh
The problem with his earlier works though, is that he tends to be too blunt with his characters' abilities. So it's the same comic-book feel w/o the metaphors. But the intended effect is the same. The reader is suppose to go "Holy S***" when reading. Whereas with JY, because of how much he explains the actions in detail and the wuxi-logic behind them, makes these actions seem realistic. Relatively speaking, of course.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by wuxi-logic. I don't see much differences in how the abilities are described in some of his earlier works vs., say, DGSD (at least the parts I've read).

Whether the actual abilities are amazing is more of a content choice. And, of course, it is relative. I can say that draining peoples' energies and slashing w. invisible swords are too "comic-book" for my ideas of realism.

[Meh]

Originally posted by TigerWong
I'm not quite sure what you mean by wuxi-logic. I don't see much differences in how the abilities are described in some of his earlier works vs., say, DGSD (at least the parts I've read).

Whether the actual abilities are amazing is more of a content choice. And, of course, it is relative. I can say that draining peoples' energies and slashing w. invisible swords are too "comic-book" for my ideas of realism.

I just meant that because GL doesn't explain his characters' abilities, even a BS one that doesn't seem plausible, it makes them seem more extrodinary.

For example, JY talked about 1 Yang Finger before Six Meridian Swords. Hence, the readers get an idea of sealing one's pressure points thru the air. Which, while great, is not too off the chart with what they read in other wuxia novels. From there, JY tells us a more advanced form of 1YZ, which is 6MSJ. But he introduced the monks version first, which were basically 6MSJ on a low setting. Only after two steps did he introduce the *true* 6MSJ, the one Duan Yu could use to put holes through people. By going through a progression, there's less of a shock value than if Duan Yu simply started shooting his chi-swords while everyone else still fights with their fists.

[TigerWong]

Originally posted by Meh
I just meant that because GL doesn't explain his characters' abilities, even a BS one that doesn't seem plausible, it makes them seem more extrodinary.

For example, JY talked about 1 Yang Finger before Six Meridian Swords. Hence, the readers get an idea of sealing one's pressure points thru the air. Which, while great, is not too off the chart with what they read in other wuxia novels. From there, JY tells us a more advanced form of 1YZ, which is 6MSJ. But he introduced the monks version first, which were basically 6MSJ on a low setting. Only after two steps did he introduce the *true* 6MSJ, the one Duan Yu could use to put holes through people. By going through a progression, there's less of a shock value than if Duan Yu simply started shooting his chi-swords while everyone else still fights with their fists.

I think the way a lot of GL stories are structured, it would not be practical to introduce and develop a slow, steady progression as you described. For example, in XXYL, I don't really care to have chapters building up to the 2 old men using their swords the way they did. A half chapter explanation was enough and I was more focused on the plot.

On the other hand, with certain epics like Tale of Washing Swords and Tale of Remarkable Swords, they do spend some time focusing on theory and progression. So I think theres a range on how much GL focuses on explaining abilities, depending on which novel you read and what he's trying to accomplish with it.

Whether the ones that end up on the more "detailed" end of the spectrum matches JY's style? Maybe not, although I don't see it being very far off for some of his stories. But I don't really feel like making excuses for GL either. Because I happen to like his style. And because ultimately theres no need to, it all comes down to preference and I don't think theres an "ideal" level of "realism".

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by minutemanwayne
Originally posted by minutemanwayne
1. Shen Lang (or whoever else you think can stand a chance against him) vs Sweeper Monk

2. Xiao Feng vs Yan Nantian

3. Yang Guo vs Ximen Chuixue

4. Ling Huchong vs Ah Fei

5. Guo Jing vs Yu Peiyu

6. Dugu Qui Bai vs Xie Xiaofeng

7. Duan Yu vs Ji Beiqing

8. Xu Zhu vs Dongguo Xian Sheng

9. Princess Yaoyue vs Tianshan Tonglao

10. Princess Lianxing vs Li Qiushui

11. Ding Peng vs Dongfang Bubai

12. Jui Mozhi vs Xiao Shiyi Lang

I need help with this.

1) Sweeper Monk.
No matter how good Shen Lang is , i doubt that he can beat someone like SM who can defeat MRB while MRB is executing the perfect defensive stance, in one blow.

2) Xiao Feng.
Not because i am a DGSD fan , but because Yan Nan Tian's stupid raging bull rush in the "valley of the little angry men" and falling into traps like that. Whereas QF survives the Yuan Manor and Shaolin meeting. Yan Nan Tian is QF without QF's emotional side minus his great tatical intellect.

3) XMCS.
Simon will beat the crap out of YG. His sword without sword, and even using air (Btw, where's the evidence for this), would beat YG, with or without the heavy sword.

4) Ah Fei.
Too fast, too deadly for LHC.

5) Yu Pei Yu.
Stong inner energy, great tatical and strategic brain. Ability to improvise, fight without any stances. YPY will likely to be able to dodge GJ's HL18Palm and beat him.

6) Dugu Qui Bai vs Xie Xiaofeng
I think DGKB, but isn't Xie Xiao Feng the most accomplished sword fighter in GL's stories. Need help for further info. But Xie's 14 stance meeting a guy who doesn't need stances or swords, will likely cause Xie to lose his wit and lose.

7) + 8) DY and XZ. More because their energies are greater, and their technique seems more deadly.

9) +10) TSTL and LCS. Same reasons.

11) Don't know. DFBB is fast. So is Deng Pang. So who wins? HELP.

12) Xiao Shi Yi Lang. Period.

[CC]

Wasn't there this short script in someone's signature about Princess Lianxing biting and breaking a hardened precious weapon into bits with her teeth? I never read this GL book.

But if that were true, thats seems beyond the abilities of JY heroes.

[minutemanwayne]

Originally posted by CC
Wasn't there this short script in someone's signature about Princess Lianxing biting and breaking a hardened precious weapon into bits with her teeth? I never read this GL book.

But if that were true, thats seems beyond the abilities of JY heroes.

Here you go CC

Translation by Athena

Princess Lianxing gently shook her sleeve and 5 claws dropped on the ground with a clanging noise, she was holding one and looked at it. She smiled:"Chicken claws, I wonder how they taste like."

She opened her delicate cherry shaped mouth and crunk bit off a part of the iron claw, this claw was made from the finest metal in the realm. This claw was also one of the most feared weapons of the realm, but she was able to bite off a piece of it with ease

[Han Solo]

Originally posted by CC
Wasn't there this short script in someone's signature about Princess Lianxing biting and breaking a hardened precious weapon into bits with her teeth? I never read this GL book.

But if that were true, thats seems beyond the abilities of JY heroes.

Impressive feat. Probably because she trained for it, what ue would that be in a fight? Elites rarely fought in a OYF style.

And does it meant that in a fight with TSTL, she would win?

[CC]

Originally posted by Han Solo
Impressive feat. Probably because she trained for it, what ue would that be in a fight? Elites rarely fought in a OYF style.

And does it meant that in a fight with TSTL, she would win?

I don't think she trained for that! It just shows a crazy level of inner power to pull that kind of stunt.

Remember how hard it was to put finger prints into soft gold in HSDS? And how hard it was to write on stone for WCY? And she freakin bites pieces off precious weapons grade alloy!

In HSDS nobody had the inner strength needed to break the 2 weapons. ZWJ with his 9 Yang couldn't break the chain either.

[tape]

Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'm reading the Sword and the Exquisiteness right now and the martial arts level of some of these characters are just amazing. GL does his typical hype up guy #1 to the nth degree, then guy #2 kills him in one stance, who in turn is killed in one stance by guy #3...etc

I'm surprised Sweeper Monk is ranked so highly by Tiger. Sweeper's feat of 1 hit KOing XYS and MRB isn't really that impressive in the GL world, and only his forcefield thing puts him high above there.

But in this story, we have people who beat-people-who-beat-people-who-beat-first rate fighters in one stance that can smile while you smash them with all your force, and the result is them killing themselves or getting bowled over by pure energy. The descriptions of certain fighters are certainly no less than the Greats, yet they are humiliated by the true elites Sweeper style. So hard to cross compare, but just surprised Tiger rated Sweeper so definitely high.

[Swordsman83]

Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'm reading the Sword and the Exquisiteness right now and the martial arts level of some of these characters are just amazing. GL does his typical hype up guy #1 to the nth degree, then guy #2 kills him in one stance, who in turn is killed in one stance by guy #3...etc

I'm surprised Sweeper Monk is ranked so highly by Tiger. Sweeper's feat of 1 hit KOing XYS and MRB isn't really that impressive in the GL world, and only his forcefield thing puts him high above there.

But in this story, we have people who beat-people-who-beat-people-who-beat-first rate fighters in one stance that can smile while you smash them with all your force, and the result is them killing themselves or getting bowled over by pure energy. The descriptions of certain fighters are certainly no less than the Greats, yet they are humiliated by the true elites Sweeper style. So hard to cross compare, but just surprised Tiger rated Sweeper so definitely high.

guess im the only one who feel that sweeper monk is overrated.

[Trien Chieu]

Dugu Qui Bai vs Xie Xiaofeng

DGQB would slice XXF into pieces. XXF doesn't stand a chance against DG9S. I don't think any of Gu Long Elites stands a chance against DGQB in a one to one fair fight. Unless two or three against one then it's another story.

[BlackRaven]

Xie XiaoFeng's swordsmanship even before he evolves the counter to Sword 14 is much better than any swordsman described in JY's known universe in my opinion.

Xie XiaoFeng's can borrow his opponent's strength and redirect it in an extremely precise way, as shown in the fight with Lei Zhetian. He can kill without using an ounce of his own inner power. His swordsmanship contains the essence of Tai Chi.

Of course, we never saw the full extent of Dugu Qiubai's power. It's safe to say that he is far more powerful than Yang Guo or Linghu Chong, both in inner power and combat experience. Even LHC's DG9J defies the laws of physics, and even logic

So I wouldn't discount DGQB's chances, might be too close to call.

[CC]

Sorry to dig up such an old thread, but I'm reading the Sword and the Exquisiteness right now and the martial arts level of some of these characters are just amazing. GL does his typical hype up guy #1 to the nth degree, then guy #2 kills him in one stance, who in turn is killed in one stance by guy #3...etc

I'm surprised Sweeper Monk is ranked so highly by Tiger. Sweeper's feat of 1 hit KOing XYS and MRB isn't really that impressive in the GL world, and only his forcefield thing puts him high above there.

But in this story, we have people who beat-people-who-beat-people-who-beat-first rate fighters in one stance that can smile while you smash them with all your force, and the result is them killing themselves or getting bowled over by pure energy. The descriptions of certain fighters are certainly no less than the Greats, yet they are humiliated by the true elites Sweeper style. So hard to cross compare, but just surprised Tiger rated Sweeper so definitely high.

I get what you mean when. In terms of imagined visuals, GL's descriptions make his fighters seem really godly compared to JY's less 'impressionist' approach to writing.

HOWEVER :

GL stressed 'via LXH, SGJH and Old Man Sun', that the highest level of martial arts is enlightenment. So it gels with JY's implied theory in DGSD too.

So in both world's, the highest form of martial arts doesn't need too much fancy bling bling. e.g. When GL described some of the sub-LXH fighters fighting (e.g. Guo Songyang), he had vivid imageries of swords and unstoppable forces etc etc, but when Old Man Sun fought Shangguan, it was just some finger fencing over a teacup.