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Thread: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    During the Heroes' Conference at Luk Manor in Dai Sing Kwan (ROCH), the Chinese heroes had a dilemma because Gwok Jing was the only Greats-level warrior they had on their side to win a best of three match against the Golden Wheel Monk and his two students, Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba. The heroes were by no means certain that Gwok Jing could definitely win against the Golden Wheel Monk, and they were also uncertain who (other than Gwok Jing, of course) could definitely defeat Fok Do or Dat Yee Ba.

    But what if North Beggar Hung 7 Gung (dead at the time, but for the sake of discussion, let's pretend he was still alive), East Heretic Wong Yerk See, South Emperor 1 Deng, and Chow Bak Tung were present? If we had these four Greats plus Gwok Jing to choose from, whom would you send against each opponent (it probably wouldn't matter because the two matches against Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba would be likely victories for the Chinese if all the Greats participated, but which would make for the most interesting fights?)?

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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    no matter who they would choose to fight GLFW , the fight would be interesting.
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    Senior Member kamii's Avatar
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    Where was YG at the time??

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    I want to see HYS vs Fok Do. HYS would show that wannabe what REAL culture and sophistication is

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by kamii
    Where was YG at the time??
    He was there, but nobody knew how good his martial arts were at the time, so nobody thought about sending him out to take on Fok Do or Dat Yee Ba.

    Eventually, Yeung Gor *did* step up to take on Fok Do (mostly because he was getting very annoyed at Fok Do for his rudeness towards Little Dragon Girl). Yeung Gor was able to beat Fok Do, but mainly through his cunning and guile rather than martial arts superiority.

    The Heroes Conference at Luk Manor really makes one wonder about the strength of the Chinese martial world outside of the Five Greats. Of the hundreds if not thousands of martial artists who attended that conference, only Gwok Jing was considered good enough to handle Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba (let alone the Golden Wheel Monk). Wong Yung could have handled them too, but she was pregnant, and therefore had a medical excuse for not fighting. Were the other Chinese fighters that useless? I'm thinking in particular of Chu Tze Lau (the Scholar), the Fisherman, Gok Dai Tung, and Sheun But Yee. We had two students of South Emperor 1 Deng and two students of Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, all four of whom were seniors in the martial world at the time, but none of them were able to win against the Golden Wheel Monk's two relatively young students. It's a bit disgraceful that the Chinese martial world had to pull out their biggest gun, Gwok Jing, to defeat a mere Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba. Fortunately, Yeung Gor was able to save face for them that day.

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    Senior Member kamii's Avatar
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    It's a bit disgraceful that the Chinese martial world had to pull out their biggest gun, Gwok Jing, to defeat a mere Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba.
    Maybe its because all the chinese ppl r selfish. Thats y the martial arts of each generation seems to decay. Because the masters r too selfish to teach all the best martial arts to their students. They keep it for themselves and therefore their students never progress beyond a certain point. Or it could be because the students are not talented and don't yet hav a deep enough understanding of their art to use it properly.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Cheng

    The Heroes Conference at Luk Manor really makes one wonder about the strength of the Chinese martial world outside of the Five Greats. Of the hundreds if not thousands of martial artists who attended that conference, only Gwok Jing was considered good enough to handle Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba (let alone the Golden Wheel Monk).
    Well, Qiu Chu Tze and Ma Yu would have done too. And the Scholar was beating Fok Do's pants off with his Yi Yang Zhi, its just that Fok Do used a cheap trick to ambush him.

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    Junior Member Condor83's Avatar
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    Default Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    If we had these four Greats plus Gwok Jing to choose from, whom would you send against each opponent (it probably wouldn't matter because the two matches against Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba would be guaranteed victories for the Chinese if all the Greats participated, but which would make for the most interesting fights?)?
    I'd like to see H7G fight Dat Yee Ba since he already wasted his five students so he might as well do the honors and defeat their master. I wonder what percentage of power he would need in his HL18P to defeat DYB. What about AYF? He fought DYB's pupils as well so maybe he should get a crack too.

    WYS and Fok Do looks like a good match since they are both intelligent and cunning, but we only see South Emperor in combat once in the entire trilogy. I want him to cripple FD with Yat Yeung Ji. Maybe just for fun ZBT can take on both FD and DYB with L/R Hand.

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    Senior Member Ian Liew's Avatar
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    I think there was also a difference in the abilities of the Quanzhen Seven. Qiu Chuji was generally reckoned as the stronger of the seven, while Hao Datong was one of the weaker - XLN had no problems beating Hao Datong (maybe because he was too shaken) but she couldn't beat Qiu Chuji.

    The Fisherman didn't exactly lose to Da Erba either - it was his oar which snapped, costing him the duel. Both Yideng's students were actually quite good there, at least in the book.

    And make no mistake, Da Erba was a complete monster...

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    Senior Member Candide's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Condor83
    I'd like to see H7G fight Dat Yee Ba since he already wasted his five students so he might as well do the honors and defeat their master. I wonder what percentage of power he would need in his HL18P to defeat DYB. What about AYF? He fought DYB's pupils as well so maybe he should get a crack too.
    Who were DYB's students ?

    WYS and Fok Do looks like a good match since they are both intelligent and cunning, but we only see South Emperor in combat once in the entire trilogy. I want him to cripple FD with Yat Yeung Ji. Maybe just for fun ZBT can take on both FD and DYB with L/R Hand.
    Good match ? Any Great would kill one of these guys in maximum 3 moves, and they wouldn't have to use any of their top skills.

    Remember that the fisherman and the scholar didn't lose to HD and DYB. In fact the scholar was comfortably kicking Hua Do's arse. Now the young GJ in LOCH was beating 4 of them with ease (fisherman, scholar, lumberjack and farmer) while protecting HR at the same time.
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    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    How about if they switched opponents? Scholar vs Da Erba, and Fisherman vs Hua Do? That would certainly be interesting with the complete clash of styles...

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    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Candide
    Good match ? Any Great would kill one of these guys in maximum 3 moves, and they wouldn't have to use any of their top skills.
    I think 3 moves would be an exaggeration even though any Great should win easily. GWM, a Great level fighter, couldn't kill either Yang Guo or Dragon Girl in 3 moves, even though they weren't any better than his own disciples at that time.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Candide
    Who were DYB's students ?



    The 5 uglies of the tibetan border that Hong Qi Gong was chasing after when he met Yang Guo at mount Wah.

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    Junior Member Condor83's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Candide
    Who were DYB's students ?

    Good match ? Any Great would kill one of these guys in maximum 3 moves, and they wouldn't have to use any of their top skills.
    Dat Yee Bah (Da Er Ba according to Noodles translation) students were the Five Clowns of Tibet who were running around killing innocent people in the beginning of ROCH. H7G tracked them to Wah San and was going to kill them all at the same time. He then ran into YG and AYF there. AYF and H7G had a little match using the five guys as a medium to test each other's strength.

    By good match, I didn't mean competitive. I said that WYS and FD would be a good match pairing because they were both the intelligent and cunning type. Maybe I should have said good pairing instead. I think a Great could only defeat FD or DYB in three moves if one of those was their best technique. H7G's HL18P at 80% power pushed DYB's five students to the brink of death. If he used it at on FD or DYB for real, it's surely death.

    By the way Candide, Ken mentioned you in a previous post about 9 Yum Jun Ging. He mentioned that you think 9Y Divine Claw is not a stand-alone move and thus was not as powerful as HL18P. Is there a genuine stand-alone technique in 9Y that could rival the Greats' top skills?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Mojo Jojo
    I think 3 moves would be an exaggeration even though any Great should win easily. GWM, a Great level fighter, couldn't kill either Yang Guo or Dragon Girl in 3 moves, even though they weren't any better than his own disciples at that time.
    That's a little bit different. Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were not individually more powerful than Fok Do or Dat Yee Ba at the time, but they had that unique synergism when combining the Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect techniques into their Double Sword Attack that brought them within striking range of Greats level. Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba couldn't do anything like that (the result of their attacking a Great together would be that they would be defeated and/or killed by the Great). That being said, I agree that it would probably take more than three moves unless the Great was going absolutely all-out. Fok Do and Dat Yee Ba were not pushovers, and I believe that even Gwok Jing used more than three moves when he defeated Dat Yee Ba at the Chung Yeung Temple (conversely, Gwok Jing used *no* moves to defeat Fok Do; he just let Fok Do rain blows upon his chest and took those blows as if they were *nothing*, convincing Fok Do that he was in no position to fight Gwok Jing).

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    Senior Member Mojo Jojo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    That's a little bit different. Yeung Gor and Little Dragon Girl were not individually more powerful than Fok Do or Dat Yee Ba at the time, but they had that unique synergism when combining the Cheun Jen Sect and Ancient Tomb Sect techniques into their Double Sword Attack that brought them within striking range of Greats level.
    Hmm, I thought that even without the two of them using that technique, GWM couldn't kill either of them in 3 moves.

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    Senior Member - L1n -'s Avatar
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    lol speaking of this great stuff if dy was still alive he would only need 1 move to deafeat anyof them, jut go for a hand sake and suk suk suk.

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    People don't do hand shakes in ancient China.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The ROCH Heroes' Conference *with* the Greats

    Originally posted by Mojo Jojo
    Hmm, I thought that even without the two of them using that technique, GWM couldn't kill either of them in 3 moves.
    He probably couldn't, and for that same reason, I'm not certain that Gwok Jing or the other Greats could necessarily kill Fok Do or Dat Yee Ba in just three moves either.

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    Senior Member superboy's Avatar
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    Possibly if they used full force with their best attack in one move they can.
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