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Thread: HUANG RONG vs. XIAO LONG NU DEBATE

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Default The **Official** HUANG RONG vs. XIAO LONG NU DEBATE

    Okay, I have enough of that pointless GJ vs. YG debate. I won't even bother reading that huge thread anymore. We all know that no clear winner will be found and the conversation will drag for ages without any conclusions, at least until Jin Yong himself writes the fourth edition of LOCH or ROCH.

    So.. let's discuss about HR vs. XLN

    Without any doubts, both are considered the best female fighters in the entire Condor Trilogy (arguable with some speculation if one is to consider Guo Xiang at her peak and LYC at her peak are better than these two women).

    Some said XLN's martial arts at her peak is higher than HR by a slight margin, but HR will win the fight because she has the intellegence to help her.

    XLN knows the Ancient Tomb Swordplay, QZ Swordplay, L-R technique, The Jade Heart Manual, parts of 9-Yin, unsurpassed lightness of kung fu, jade bee needles technique, and can control her bees.

    Her weakness is her intellegence and simple mind

    HR knows Peach Blossom Kung Fu, Full 9-Yin, Dog Beating Stick Techniques, Arts of formation and strategy, ursurpassed brain power (second to none in the trilogy), and her special protection body vest.

    Her weakness is her complex mind which led to her inability to learn L-R technique.

    Okay... let the battle begin !
    Last edited by Temujin; 04-14-04 at 11:44 AM.

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    Default XLN

    Since XLN was able to fend off GWM (at least in the TVB adaptations) using L/R technique to combine QZ & Jade Maiden swordplays into the Pure Heart of Jade Maiden Swordplay and with her Ancient Tomb Lightness kung fu, I'd say XLN has the edge.
    Last edited by longdong; 04-14-04 at 05:20 PM.

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    Member Zhen Yu Cao's Avatar
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    Straight out fight? No tricks? XiaoLongNiu.
    As far as I'm concerned, the 'armor' that Huang Rong USED to wear is useless against a sword anyhow, since the whole point of it was to hurt anyone who gave some sort of palm/striking art. XiaoLongNiu is literally a blur speedwise, can wield her dual swords to work together perfectly. What does Huang Rong have? Let's face it, despite all the various arts she knew from her father, the 'beat dog stick' was her greatest and most used asset. There is a reason for this, she was great with this technique, it fits her personality and style, and she can wield the stick to deal great damage. She is fast, but she is also now old. Not to mention, she was nowhere near as fast as XiaoLongNiu in the first place...
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Zhen Yu Cao

    As far as I'm concerned, the 'armor' that Huang Rong USED to wear is useless against a sword anyhow, since the whole point of it was to hurt anyone who gave some sort of palm/striking art.
    The armor seemed designed to handle sharp attacks rather than blunt attacks. I think Wong Yung was attacked at one point by Jin Empire archers, and their arrows bounced off her armor. On the other hand, Kau Cheen Yan nearly killed Wong Yung with his Iron Palm.

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    Junior Member Condor83's Avatar
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    Default Re: The **Official** HUANG RONG vs. XIAO LONG NU DEBATE

    Originally posted by Temujin
    Her (XLN) weakness is her intellegence and simple mind
    Yah, the whole Gj vs. YG thread is getting massively long and I don't read it either. Although I would agree that WY would win because she's so intelligent and cunning, XLN's simple mind actually served her quite well. Her best technique is combining QZ and AT swordplay through L/R Hand, which can only be learned by people who have that simple mind. Without L/R Hand and thus the synergy reaped by the swordplay combination, she'd wouldn't have stood a chance against the GWM.

    Originally posted by Temujin
    Her weakness is her complex mind which led to her inability to learn L-R technique.
    A lot of people think the L/R Hands Technique is just a bunch of tricks designed to fool the opponent so depending on who you talk to, it may not be considered a weakness at all. I'm not sure if this is the case since GJ says there is a great improvement in technique that can be achieved via L/R Hand. I'm don't think WY's inability to learn L/R Hand counts as a weakness. She's unable to learn HL18P so would that count as a weakness also? Nonetheless, you still may be correct because in a close battle L/R Hand may be the decider like when ZBT fought KCY.

    I think WY wins by tricking XLN into thinking that WCY and LCY would not approve of her use of QZ and AT swordplay together because of their less than amicable breakup, thereby causing XLN to stop using the two techniques out of shame. Even without mind games, WY could probably confuse XLN with some of those very slippery and tricky 9 Yum techniques. She's also quite handy with Peach Blossom Island kung-fu though I wonder if she could perform the Divine Finger Flick with any great effect.

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    If this was a personality debate- Huang Rong would win hands down.

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    Senior Member rabadi's Avatar
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    I would pick HR as the winner. But then again I am biased

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    Senior Member SkineePanda's Avatar
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    Wait. Wait. Is this HR vs. XLN debate based on beauty or martial arts?

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    Senior Member minutemanwayne's Avatar
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    Originally posted by SkineePanda
    Wait. Wait. Is this HR vs. XLN debate based on beauty or martial arts?
    Martial arts. But they are also factoring in intelligence (and yet they didn't factor in intelligence in the Guo Jing vs Yang Guo fight)
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    Senior Member philip's Avatar
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    Her weakness is her intellegence and simple mind
    XLN isn't dumb...she's just not like YG & HR. And simple mind could hardly be a disadvantage seeing how she won't be able to perform L/R w/o it.

    Her weakness is her complex mind which led to her inability to learn L-R technique.
    not being able to learn L/R really isn't a disadvantage for HR...it's just not a plus point.

    Martial arts. But they are also factoring in intelligence
    HR's intelligence will obviously help her in the fight

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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    Even without tricking XLN, HR still gonna win.
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    Senior Member ToOn99's Avatar
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    16 years ago when XLN hadn't disappeared into the deep end of valley, HR was better in terms of internal energy, experience, technique (probably a bit), and knowledge about other techniques.
    During 16 years living in the deep end of valley, XLN hadnt had much improvement in terms of her Internal Energy (someone said that in other thread, I just referred his/her statement), although she improved in technique bases. (LR hands + "something" swordplay). Furthermore, she didnt have any fighting experience during that time,that means no improvement in terms of fighting skill and experience. Supposed everything was going normal for HR (keep improving at the same rates as usual), She would be still better than XLN in the end of ROCH.
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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    it's hard to say. without L/R hand technique, XLN would lose for sure. no question. 100% HR. however...

    we see that when YG and XLN are young, they can beat GWM (or at least push on him to make him be on the defensive only) by using their jade heart swordplay. around 20 years later, we see XLN holding GWM for over 100 stances using the same kungfu by herself.

    considering that HR could not even land ONE stance on GWM while XLN could last a long time, i'd say that XLN would dominate HR. still, HR has 9yin techniques though...and i believe that if HR used 9yin correctly and effectively, she would still beat XLN.

    weapons-wise, i'm not sure that XLN's speed would equal 100% win. after all, a big part of dogbeating stick's philosophy is stealing the enemy's weapon.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Little Dragon Girl is likely to summon her honeybees to attack if a straight fight becomes untenable. Wong Yung would probably come prepared for that if she knows who she's up against, but what if Wong Yung doesn't?

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Default Re: XLN

    Originally posted by longdong
    Since XLN was able to fend off GWM (at least in the TVB adaptations) using L/R technique to combine QZ & Jade Maiden swordplays into the Pure Heart of Jade Maiden Swordplay and with her Ancient Tomb Lightness kung fu, I'd say XLN has the edge.
    Well... she was only able to withstand GWM for a while. The L-R technique makes it more confusing for GWM, but clearly, if the fight goes a minute longer she would have lost the fight.

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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Zhen Yu Cao
    Straight out fight? No tricks? XiaoLongNiu.
    As far as I'm concerned, the 'armor' that Huang Rong USED to wear is useless against a sword anyhow, since the whole point of it was to hurt anyone who gave some sort of palm/striking art. XiaoLongNiu is literally a blur speedwise, can wield her dual swords to work together perfectly. What does Huang Rong have? Let's face it, despite all the various arts she knew from her father, the 'beat dog stick' was her greatest and most used asset. There is a reason for this, she was great with this technique, it fits her personality and style, and she can wield the stick to deal great damage. She is fast, but she is also now old. Not to mention, she was nowhere near as fast as XiaoLongNiu in the first place...
    I think we should consider all aspects and qualities of both fighters. After all, XLN's simple mind is what make her able to practice L-R technique. On the other hand, HR's awesome brain power is what makes her technique tricky and thus, the dog beating stick techniques fit her personality.

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Re: XLN

    Originally posted by Temujin
    Well... she was only able to withstand GWM for a while. The L-R technique makes it more confusing for GWM, but clearly, if the fight goes a minute longer she would have lost the fight.
    And the main reason being she's running out of internal energy.
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    Senior Member Temujin's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    The armor seemed designed to handle sharp attacks rather than blunt attacks. I think Wong Yung was attacked at one point by Jin Empire archers, and their arrows bounced off her armor. On the other hand, Kau Cheen Yan nearly killed Wong Yung with his Iron Palm.
    Wow, I didn't know that armor can protect her from sharp objects and weapons, like arrows. I guess the bees will have problems with her.

    Originally posted by Condor83
    Yah, the whole Gj vs. YG thread is getting massively long and I don't read it either. Although I would agree that WY would win because she's so intelligent and cunning, XLN's simple mind actually served her quite well. Her best technique is combining QZ and AT swordplay through L/R Hand, which can only be learned by people who have that simple mind. Without L/R Hand and thus the synergy reaped by the swordplay combination, she'd wouldn't have stood a chance against the GWM.
    I know that the simple mind served her pretty well. After all, she was able to defend against GWM using L-R technique for a short moment. Part of the main reasons was because GWM was confused, not to mention XLN has one of the best lightness of Kung Fu. But in a fight against Huang Rong it might not be an advantage for XLN, I am pretty sure HR has something up her sleeves to fend off XLN's L-R attack. HR is the most intellegent person in the entire Trilogy, if not in the entire JY universe. Beside her intellegence, she is most likely the third person who is very very familiar (although she is unable to practice them) with L-R techniques, other then ZBT and GJ. I really think the dog-beating-stick will provide enough to fire-power, swiftness, trickiness and agility to fend off or equalize XLN's L-R techniques combining the Ancient tomb and QZ techniques. Don't forget the she knows 9-yin.

    Originally posted by Condor83

    I'm don't think WY's inability to learn L/R Hand counts as a weakness. She's unable to learn HL18P so would that count as a weakness also? Nonetheless, you still may be correct because in a close battle L/R Hand may be the decider like when ZBT fought KCY.
    [/B]
    Wouldn't it be much better if her complex mind can learn L-R as well, imagine doing 'dog beating stick' with one hand and performing 'Divine Finger Flicking technique' with another. That's lethal… but she can't do it. Nevertheless, her intellegence makes up for it.


    Originally posted by Ken Cheng
    Little Dragon Girl is likely to summon her honeybees to attack if a straight fight becomes untenable. Wong Yung would probably come prepared for that if she knows who she's up against, but what if Wong Yung doesn't?
    Don't you think HR's inner power is sufficient enough to fend off the bee attacks ?

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    Senior Member Arching_Hero's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Temujin
    Don't you think HR's inner power is sufficient enough to fend off the bee attacks ?
    I think HR have the sufficient inner power to fend off the bee attacks. She did learned 9Yin and she did had a good base of inner power techinque from her father.

    Afterall, HR's inner power can be higher than the QiuChuJi who also managed to fend the bee off.

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    Originally posted by Temujin
    Wow, I didn't know that armor can protect her from sharp objects and weapons, like arrows. I guess the bees will have problems with her.

    Don't you think HR's inner power is sufficient enough to fend off the bee attacks ?
    The armor is only protecting HR torso, her face, hands, and neck are exposed. While HR is busy fending off the bees, XLN could go on the offensive and it would be like HR fighting 3 people (XLN's left arm using AT swordplay, right arm using QZ swordplay, and the bees being a third).

    Originally posted by sixdays
    a big part of dogbeating stick's philosophy is stealing the enemy's weapon. [/B]
    However, a big part of Pure Heart of JM swordplay is to protect the weakness of one while the other attacks. So HR would be hard pressed to fine a weakness to steal XLN's swords.

    Granted, HR is a genius and may eventually spot a weak point, however, in the midst of battle (as with the OYF and HQG final battle from Noodles' translation), "who would allow h(er) to carefully study it and then think of a way to counter it?”

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