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Thread: The Bund 《上海灘》

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Ko
    Not sure if anyone answer this, was the Bund based on a novel?

    I also heard this and I think this is more plausible. Very hard to believe that suddenly TVB has such great scriptwriters and then just as suddenly they disappeared after the Bund 1 .
    Last edited by rokko99; 11-29-04 at 09:31 AM.

  2. #62
    Senior Member MetalAZNWarrior's Avatar
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    I'm on episode 23 right now and I have 2 more episodes to go I don't want to go into too much detail on my opinions because I'm going to write a more detailed review after I finish the series. However, I just wanted to say that this series really lived up to its hype and met my expectations. It's excellent. More thoughts later.
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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    >>>I respect Ding Lik for the fact that he made himself Shanghai's # 1 man >>through his determination and ruthlessness. Of course, Fung Ging Yiu and Hui >>Mun Keung were indispensable in getting him started in his long climb to the >>top, but it was still his climb to make.


    If that's your case , then you should respect MK and Fung more , since as you said without MK , he would be just another coolie eeking out a living in the slums of Shanghai . MK gave him his big break, and these don't come easy.
    He owes MK a lot , which is why he let him live , and took 1 finger only.

    it wasn't an act of friendship so much as a repayment of debt.

    Similarly with Fung , although Ding was #1 man , he could be replaced . His ties with Ching Ching was the main reason for his ascendency , this is why he went after her in the 1st place . If Fung had not chose him as his right hand man and blessed his marriage to Ching , he would not have gone so far , he would have been just a chief thug at best.

    And how did he pay back old man Fung? He betrayed and had him killed , so he could take over.

    Hard to see how to respect such a man . But , each to his own , I guess...

    And let's not forget that Ding was " determined and ruthless " , by commiting all manner of crimes , while pretending to be a good guy ! It's not as if he was just climbing the corporate ladder.



    >>When Ding Lik set out into the Shanghai underworld, his goal certainly wasn't >>to become "a lonely, disrespected old shell." During his youth, Ding Lik had >>idolized Fung Ging Yiu, and this admiration was later also transferred to Hui >>Mun Keung. Ah Lik, however, was naive...he did not know the pitfalls that >>came with power.



    I don't think so . I feel he convinced himself that he felt true friendship and adulation for MK, whereas in fact he was jealous and longed to replace him.

    He fooled himself , at least until he felt confident enough to go alone . He was expedient , that's not real friendship , that's just using someone.

    As for Fung , well if he was Ding's idol , it didn't last too long . As soon as he took his daughter and rose to #1 man , he had the old guy killed.

    But what he failed to realise was that power in itself cannot get you respect and happiness , the 2 most important things in the world . This was his undoing and the difference between him and MK .

    When each was confronted with moral choices , MK made the right ones and Ding ultimately the wrong ones .

    In the end , people knew what his character was like and instinctively avoided him . Even his own secretary refused his advances and chose a mere student over him , how low Ding had fallen despite his apparent power.

    Moreover, he failed to get the 2 women he wanted and his son died . he was weak and failed to realise that loneliness and lack of respect is the price for power and corruption.

    Happens all the time .
    Let's not confuse "respect" with "admire". Naturally, I admire Hui Mun Keung much more than I do Ding Lik, but I respect Ding Lik as much as I do Hui Mun Keung because Ding Lik was able to take advantage of the opportunities that came his way and make the most out of them. People run into opportunities often, but few are able to take maximum advantage of them.

    THE BUND was not about black-and-white morality...it was about moral ambiguity. Nobody in the story was purely noble (except maybe Fung Ching Ching, but she was more innocent and naive than noble), but at the same time, nobody was purely evil either. What made the characters of this story special was that they always seemed to straddle the line between good and evil.

    Fung Ging Yiu and Ding Lik: we never learn much about Fung Ging Yiu's youth and his own rise to the top, but the story strongly suggests that Fung's early days were very similar to Ding's. Fung Ging Yiu probably represents what Ding Lik would become twenty or thirty years later.

  4. #64
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    I also heard this and I think this is more plausible. Very hard to believe that suddenly TVB has such great scriptwriters and then just as suddenly they disappeared after the Bund 1 .
    They didn't disappear, but were bottled up to fit TVB's less artistic ambitions. Those who refused to be bottled up went on to bigger and better things.

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    3 most memorable things about Shanghai Beach:

    1. Chow Yun Fat - He was so cool and suave in his role as Hui Man Keong
    2. The prettinest of Chiu Ngar Chi especially with her plaited hair
    3. The unforgettable theme song sung by Frances Yip that lives on beyond the series

    By the way, Frances Yip talks about her experience with Shanghai Beach at www.hkvpradio.com --> catch the broadcast there.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Omniflame's Avatar
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    What's up with this ad?
    http://nbi.com/hk/cyf/hkh/tvb/bund/gallery/bundad.jpg
    from: http://nbi.com/hk/cyf/hkh/tvb/bund/bund.html

    Did they show The Bund in movie theatres?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omniflame
    What's up with this ad?
    http://nbi.com/hk/cyf/hkh/tvb/bund/gallery/bundad.jpg
    from: http://nbi.com/hk/cyf/hkh/tvb/bund/bund.html

    Did they show The Bund in movie theatres?
    In a manner of speaking, yes. A year or two after THE BUND was broadcast on TV, select footage was cut from the series to make a two-hour feature film that was shown in theaters. How the Shaw Brothers could reduce a 1000-minute series into a 120-minute feature film and make it coherent, and how they could think that it would be a profitable exercise (who would pay money to watch a chopped up version of a TV show they were able to see in its entirety at home for free?) is beyond me.

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    >>Let's not confuse "respect" with "admire". Naturally, I admire Hui Mun Keung >>much more than I do Ding Lik, but I respect Ding Lik as much as I do Hui Mun >Keung because Ding Lik was able to take advantage of the opportunities that >came his way and make the most out of them. People run into opportunities >often, but few are able to take maximum advantage of them.



    Wow , that was a long time .

    But since you made the effort :

    I don't see how this changes the issue . In response to you saying " I respect Ding Lik " in your post 29/11/04 . I said " Hard to see how to respect such a man . But , each to his own , I guess. "

    So it doesn't change my mind about what Ding was as a man .

    Also any criminal minded fool can " take advantage of opportunities " , all you need is to murder , cheat , fake friendships and love , to lick your friend's/boss's behind and then stab him in the same place when the time comes.

    I don't see how anyone can see these actions as anything but immoral , and have respect for this . In each case Ding had commited these actions without any qualms.

    Let's not forget a lot of the chances he got , others gave him - MK , Fung , even Ching Ching .It's not as if he did it all on his own.

    if you are willing to forsake the above qualities to be a low life scumbag , then of course you will have loads of opportunities , most people chose the lawful path and therefore have to work much HARDER than Mr.Ding , to get chances in life !

    It would be very naiive to be impressed by a smart suit , many a scumbag dresses smart .

    of course , Ding's story does not end with Bund 1 , if you watch 2 & 3 , you will know the fate that befell him , see my post of 29/11/04 - not very spectacular to say the least.

    So even if one judges him solely on performance, he rather poorly in the end.

    But if you still respect him , then as I say to each his own I guess.

    You differentiate between respect and admire . well most people would say admire is a greater form of respect . I won't say anymore on this, as this is the slippery slope of semanticism.



    >> THE BUND was not about black-and-white morality...it was about moral >>ambiguity. Nobody in the story was purely noble (except maybe Fung Ching >>Ching, but she was more innocent and naive than noble), but at the same >>time, nobody was purely evil either. What made the characters of this story ?>>special was that they always seemed to straddle the line between good and >evil.


    Thousands if not millions have watched the Bund , and they all will have their own opinions on the moral messages it conveys .

    to each his own.


    I never said it was B&W , I said it was morally multi-variate , meaning it lures viewers to come out and declare what their interpretations are .

    So a person who says there are morals in The Bund is equally and maybe more valid than someone who says otherwise.

    Nothing in life is totally Black and White , but what is more White than Black counts , otherwise you might as well justify every single crime in the world , clearly that is non sensical.

    In this light we can make a judgement about the characters of The Bund.



    >>They didn't disappear, but were bottled up to fit TVB's less artistic ambitions. >>Those who refused to be bottled up went on to bigger and better things.


    Why would they be " bottled " up ? given the great success of the Bund , and the sebsequent drop in quality of TVB series .

    I don't buy it.

    It makes no commercial sense or otherwise. for this reason I believe it is more plausible that the BUND was based on a book.

  9. #69
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    It makes no commercial sense or otherwise. for this reason I believe it is more plausible that the BUND was based on a book.
    If so, this book is the best-kept secret in the known universe...better hidden than Bin Laden and Saddam's weapons of mass destruction.

    If THE BUND were cribbed from some novel, there's no way that novel would remain unknown to the entire Chinese-speaking world for nearly 25 years. It's just not plausible.

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    Chinese culture the oldest and deepest in the whole world , there are many secrets .

    So just because American Ken Cheng says it is implausible, then it " has to be so."

    Interesting logic , possible I guess , but not plausible .

  11. #71
    Junior Member sol003's Avatar
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    seen 1 and 2..didn't seen 3

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    Chinese culture the oldest and deepest in the whole world , there are many secrets .
    With all due respect, that's a very weak premise upon which to claim that such a book exists.

    Some people believe that the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, and green aliens from Mars exist too. Is the burden of proof on them to prove that these things exist, or is the burden of proof on those who do not believe that these things exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    So just because American Ken Cheng says it is implausible, then it " has to be so."
    That isn't the reason, and you know it.

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    >>Some people believe that the Loch Ness Monster, Bigfoot, and green aliens >>from Mars exist too. Is the burden of proof on them to prove that these things >>exist, or is the burden of proof on those who do not believe that these things >>exist?


    what does this have to do with Chinese culture and it's long and mysterious history ?

    all this stuff above has never ever been proven .

    China has the longest unbroken history in the world and much of its complexity as yet undiscovered .
    are you putting this on the same level as green aliens ? if so , good luck , because you'll need it .

    so I don't find it strange in the slightest that the Bund may have been based on a book , there are 1000's of stories in China to be inspired from.


    >>That isn't the reason, and you know it.


    If this is so and unless you have 1st hand contact with the script writers of TVB from the early 80's , then why not chill out and live and let live .

    some people believe The Bund is based on a book , other don't , others believe yet another thing . so what ? what' the big fuss ?

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    .some people believe The Bund is based on a book , other don't , others believe yet another thing . so what ? what' the big fuss ?
    The big fuss is that you're accusing people (i.e. the TVB scriptwriters) of plagiarism, a serious charge in terms of intellectual property rights, but you're not offering any proof more substantial than "China is a big country with a long and mysterious history."

    You'll need stronger evidence than that to convince people that there's plagiarism going on here.

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    Senior Member charbydis's Avatar
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    Actually, there is a book out, by TVB, and I saw it at a bookstore in HK three years ago. Its year of publication was 198- something, so I believe the book was published after the series came out. So TVB did not plagiarise from a book, but instead, release a novel based on the series. Other movies also did are "Terracotta Warriors" with Gong Li, and "Green Snake" with Maggie Cheung.
    "Better to write for yourself and have no public, than to write for the public and have no self."
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    The big fuss is that you're accusing people (i.e. the TVB scriptwriters) of >>plagiarism, a serious charge in terms of intellectual property rights, but you're >>not offering any proof more substantial than "China is a big country with a >>long and mysterious history."


    don't be silly , you can base something on a book without stealing the entire story verbatim . happens all the time .

    and yes that is right - China is a big country with a long and mysterious history.

    this is undisputed fact . better than comparing it to little green men .


    >>You'll need stronger evidence than that to convince people that there's >>plagiarism going on here.


    no. wrong again , see above re plagarism , and I am not trying to convince anyone of anything , very difficult to KNOW exactly where the story really came from , especially since it's been 25 years .

    I am just giving my view .

    what you chose to believe is up to you , but it sounds like you are hell bent on convincing others .

    OK ken , I'm done with this little conversation , so this will be my last post on this particular subject.
    Last edited by rokko99; 12-26-04 at 05:16 PM.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    don't be silly , you can base something on a book without stealing the entire story verbatim . happens all the time.
    Nevertheless, you have not presented convincing evidence that this was indeed the case with THE BUND.

    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    no. wrong again , see above re plagarism , and I am not trying to convince anyone of anything
    Then why are you presenting arguments on a debate forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    I am just giving my view .
    But not supporting it effectively.


    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99

    what you chose to believe is up to you , but it sounds like you are hell bent on convincing others .
    When you come into a debate forum, you can offer any view you want...but if your views aren't substantiated, you can expect them to be scrutinized...especially if what you're proposing has potential for controversy.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    don't be silly , you can base something on a book without stealing the entire story verbatim . happens all the time.
    Nevertheless, you have not presented convincing evidence that this was indeed the case with THE BUND.

    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    no. wrong again , see above re plagarism , and I am not trying to convince anyone of anything
    Then why are you presenting arguments on a debate forum?

    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99
    I am just giving my view .
    But not supporting them effectively.


    Quote Originally Posted by rokko99

    what you chose to believe is up to you , but it sounds like you are hell bent on convincing others .
    When you come into a debate forum, you can offer any view you want...but if your views aren't substantiated, you can expect them to be scrutinized...especially if what you're proposing has potential for controversy.

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    What happened in part 3?

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    Hmm...I think I've seen this series when I was really little, so I don't remember any of it. However, I do have the theme song stuck in my head, and I know how to sing every word..Heh.

    My mom remembers watching it though, and she loved it.
    I'm watching: War & Destiny, Yummy Yummy

    Want to watch: The Conquest, ASITP & EH (again)

    Recently watched: LOCH'82, Strike at Heart, Central Affairs, The Academy

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